Oh, and I meant to thank you again for the consise and thoughtful discourse on the differences between PU and PVC which you laid out earlier. It was really helpful. My second pair of 'PVCs' were more like the softer, more modern, leathery and form-fitting PU you described and I have to say they are much nicer. I like them a lot. Yet I would not have bought them had I not had the benefit of your advice. So thanks!