Hi all

[jeremy1986]

Hiya all,

I just joined the forum - have been over at HHP for a while, till I recently followed @Tech's link to here, from his signature footer.

Happy to see some familiar "faces" here from HHP.

Looking forward to joining in on the conversations!

[Shyheels]

Welcome!

I've enjoyed your posts from HHP.

Looking forward to your joining in!

 

[FastFreddy2]

10 hours ago, jeremy1986 said:

Looking forward to joining in on the conversations!

Hello and welcome!

Any help keeping the place 'lively', always a great addition. 

[jeremy1986]

Thanks @Shyheels and @FastFreddy2. Good to be here. seems this forum is much less active than the other?

[Shyheels]

Indeed it is, I'm afraid. One tries to generate conversation but there are only a couple of us here who could be said to be active posters. Others come and go at great intervals. It would be great to get this forum up and going. it has a nice premise - guys who like to wear heels, as guys. Please do stay and post! 

[FastFreddy2]

I think it's about 'critical mass', having enough traffic/posts for people to bother responding. Not that men wearing heels are particularly overt in their views/expression or activity (it seems to me). It's not called "staying in the closet" without good reason. 

The other aspect is that with possibly a single exception, this place targets men (only) as it's membership base, where HHp has a small but active female membership. It's more of a regular environment than say a 'gentleman's club' like this might be viewed. Also, activity (posts and or pictures) of cross-dressing men is not encouraged here. It still goes on, but it's not discussed or demonstrated here as it is at HHp. I wonder how popular it would remain if all CD activity on HHp was stopped?

If it sounds like I might be a bit 'anti' about the cross-dressing, be assured, I am far from that. Farrrrrrrrrrrr from it.  But they are some "outfits", even women (who the clothing may have been designed for) couldn't look good wearing them. 

Examples of clothing that shouldn't (IMO) be worn by anyone: A line skirts, and culottes. If you wanted to make an otherwise slim girl look like she's got disproportionately big hips, have her wear an A line skirt. If you want to make an otherwise long legged girl look like she has short legs, have her wear culottes.

I'm old enough to have seen people with (what looked like) mild disabilities having shoes built up so each of their legs appeared and worked as if they were the same length (although they weren't in fact the same length). Platform shoes and boots that don't have a high rise, look like the shoes have been built up to hide/help a mild disability. 

Foe example: nice legs, shame about the (clumpy) shoes....

 

  

And the jacket looks (to be intentionally) a size too small. 

[Shyheels]

There are female members on HHP but very, very few in number and I would not really call them active. The few that participate - only a couple -  might post once every couple of months, or make three or four posts in a short span and not post again for years, if at all.  

[FastFreddy2]

I haven't been a member there for .... 10 years!

Things have changed .... I didn't know. 

As I remember, the Ladies Only section used to be quite busy with at least 2 commercial members able to provide details on products too. Ho-hum.

[Shyheels]

Nobody posts in there at all hardly any more. Maybe once every couple of months at most.

[FastFreddy2]

I suppose women aren't exempt from getting older, nor from fashion moving on.

'Back then' in 2008 I suppose Louboutin was in the ascendancy and the fashion 'flutter' was the red soles shoes and how elegant they looked. I have met (but don't know her well) a girl who would back then buy a pair of Loubies every time she went on holiday abroad. She would sometimes wear them down the pub, but most pairs were kept as 'investments'. She seldom wears a heel now.

I've said it many many times..... Woman wear a heel because they can. Unlike me they will likely be young enough to have an active social life and plenty of places to wear a heel if they choose to wear one. As women age, their feet get more sensitive, suffer long term damage ... Wearing a heel anywhere outside a bedroom isn't something they will find attractive forever.

Fashion is moving a little away from a high elegant heel too. To my astonishment, I've noticed platforms have bounced back a little. Why? Possibly to keep girls/women in a heel? I've no doubt the girls who used to post at HHp in 2008 won't currently be enjoying the heels they used to wear back then. Even if they do still wear high heels, it's likely because there's a professional reason for them to continue, like they own a shoe business. I'm suggesting a woman's interest in high heels is transient.  Perhaps 1 in 10,000 isn't, but I'm not going to know her. (Actually, I might know someone, but I've had no contact from her for 7 years.) Mrs Freddy knows someone who must be in her 80's, and is a woman never seen in flat shoes. These people are far from common place, and certainly won't be members of HHp. 

Like here, without new blood and encouraged new blood, eventually the enthusiasm of the core members will also fail. 

I'm not sure there's an answer for picking up numbers, or attracting them. PICTURES always help.  Links to products .... Anyone using the internet is likely used to visual stimulation.   

 

[Shyheels]

I think there were problems with some of the guys coming onto the women members. Quite a few women left as a result.

There is also the totally different perspective on heels and heel wearing. Where the guys tend to talk about whether or not they dare to wear them in public, it is a total non issue to the women. A bore.

There are also a lot of guys on HHP who are clearly fetish oriented and that is going to be off putting to a lot, if not the overwhelming majority, of women who are highly likely to be purely fashion oriented.

Then there is a fairly big CD contingent on HHP, and again this is off putting to a lot of women (and me too, for that matter) who would be looking for a pure fashion site to discuss heels and fashion, not guys dressing up in skirts and pantyhose. 

There would need to be some fundamental changes there for there to be an active female membership 

[Puffer]

Quite apart from the apparent reluctance of the small number of women members on HHP to post much at all these days, the CD element (such as it ever was) has been suppressed to a large extent in the last couple of years - and the board is supposed to eschew overt CD conduct.   Although there are a number of men who dress in women's clothes (not just shoes) and wear make-up etc - to varying effect - they do so (allegedly) as 'men in women's clothing' rather than intentional CDs - and largely get away with it.   A couple of long-term members have however been reprimanded or kicked-out, or have 'resigned' because they went too far in the CD activity, i.e. wearing a bra and/or breast-forms.   I hold no brief for them either way, but HHP is emphatically not a CD site and, whilst they are free to do their own thing, some of the antics and images are decidedly discomforting to many of us, of whatever gender!    Indeed, I find their public lifestyle close to fetishism in many respects  - yet, if they are being truly honest, they seem to be accepted with reactions ranging from complete indifference through mild curiosity to positive appreciation, e.g. being complimented by men or women and asked about their clothing/shoes.

[FastFreddy2]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I think there were problems with some of the guys coming onto the women members. Quite a few women left as a result.

As I've made no secret to the fact I got kicked off HHp for upsetting (literally) one or two people. Both Americans. This despite the fact I had quickly become a major contributor, and had many 'likes' despite the short period of membership. 

I had been approached via PM by one of the active and what seemed like quite progressive female members there. She had shared some intimate details with me, (long email) of a relationship she had with another member, and it rather looked like a Dom and Sub setup to me. Why I had been contacted and slightly involved, was an enigma. In fact so enigmatic, I challenged her to prove she existed, and wasn't a 20 stone (fantasist) lorry driver. Communication was cut short. Her temporary email address evaporated, and I had neither further contact off the site, nor did I attempt any via PM on the site. I fancy, it rather proved my point.

I sometimes wonder if she contributed to getting me kicked off, which arrived without warning and without reason.  

 

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

There is also the totally different perspective on heels and heel wearing. Where the guys tend to talk about whether or not they dare to wear them in public, it is a total non issue to the women. A bore.

I would agree. And many were critical of the whole men-in-heels gig. 

 

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

There are also a lot of guys on HHP who are clearly fetish oriented and that is going to be off putting to a lot, if not the overwhelming majority, of women who are highly likely to be purely fashion oriented.

Then there is a fairly big CD contingent on HHP, and again this is off putting to a lot of women (and me too, for that matter) who would be looking for a pure fashion site to discuss heels and fashion, not guys dressing up in skirts and pantyhose. 

Perhaps it's too large a pigeon hole, but fetish/CD/TV is all the same to me, its dress-up and British men like to play dress-up. (It's in the DNA.)

In that respect, I don't fully understand why any woman would post on such a site unless they operated 'in the scene' too. Even so, there are better places (other Forums) that might be more suitable anyway. That said, in an arena where there are 100 (often single) men to every woman member, it's not hard to build up a fan base with some teasing of the (often single) men. Were I in every other respect a fairly unattractive person (male or female) I could have quite a good time, amongst a fairly attentive audience, by adopting the persona of a twenty-something into 5 inch heels. How would anyone know the truth?

 

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

There would need to be some fundamental changes there for there to be an active female membership 

I've stumbled across a number of more suitable places. As time goes on the prospective membership is attracted to a more diverse range of forums where seemingly every niche interest is addressed. HHp isn't a particularly inviting place anyway. There's way too much testosterone allowed by the "in" crowd who get away with bullying some of the new members. I was obviously disappointed that I got banned, but it was probably a blessing in disguise because I was spending too much time contributing. Plus there were people there who believed themselves to be god-like, and I have never got on well with people who consider themselves "superior". Best I stayed away. I never attempted to re-join, nor join with a new handle/user-name. I know how easy it can be done using a proxy IP address so I could have joined as Phil from Philadelphia, or Jean from Jersey. But why bother?  

[FastFreddy2]

20 minutes ago, Puffer said:

Quite apart from the apparent reluctance of the small number of women members on HHP to post much at all these days, the CD element (such as it ever was) has been suppressed to a large extent in the last couple of years - and the board is supposed to eschew overt CD conduct.   Although there are a number of men who dress in women's clothes (not just shoes) and wear make-up etc - to varying effect - they do so (allegedly) as 'men in women's clothing' rather than intentional CDs - and largely get away with it.   A couple of long-term members have however been reprimanded or kicked-out, or have 'resigned' because they went too far in the CD activity, i.e. wearing a bra and/or breast-forms.   I hold no brief for them either way, but HHP is emphatically not a CD site and, whilst they are free to do their own thing, some of the antics and images are decidedly discomforting to many of us, of whatever gender!    Indeed, I find their public lifestyle close to fetishism in many respects  - yet, if they are being truly honest, they seem to be accepted with reactions ranging from complete indifference through mild curiosity to positive appreciation, e.g. being complimented by men or women and asked about their clothing/shoes.

Regardless to how other here feel about it, let me first state how I understand how the CD/TV/TS scene works, speaking as someone who has touched it all...

CD.... Cross dresser. Starting somewhere that might be called androgynous, right up to just short of TV. So, a man wearing clothing or any attire designed and made for a woman. A  woman wearing clothing or attire designed and made for a man. Probably less ambiguous if written as cross-sex dressing. (Wearing clothing designed and made of the opposite sex.) There is no intent on the part of a male (for example) to pass, or be seen as a female. This would currently be me.

T.V.... This is essential someone (almost always male) who dresses and applies other feminine specific attire (make-up/wigs/breast forms) to seem like a woman or to pass as a woman. A cross dresser would never have the need to wear a bra, breast forms, or a silky camisole. These would only be worn as part of the 'to pass' regime, where playing a female was the intent and/or being seen as a female was the intent. I have done this, and Puffer has seen photo's of me 'en femme' indicating I'm not a fantasist when I write this stuff.

T.S.... This is where wearing clothing of the opposite sex and looking like someone of the opposite sex isn't enough and BEING someone of the opposite sex is so necessary, that gender re-assignment becomes the single most important goal of the person who needs it. Unlike the previous two groups which seem to contain an unequal quantity of men over women. the TS category seems to be much more equally balanced if not tilted in the other direct. (More women wanting it than men.)

 

So with this in mind .... I would suggest there is a wide range of CD/TV enthusiasts on HHP (and good luck to them) starting with men only wearing a heel right up to men wearing everything to make themselves as feminine as possible. If all this additional activity was stopped, the site would in fact become a Men in Heels II. Would that be a good thing?

 

[Shyheels]

As you say HHP is not meant to be a CD site, but rather a straight fashion site. I would say however there are a few members who stray well across that line.

I think most people’s idea of CD is rather more flamboyant than someone borrowing a single item of clothing from the other shelf - a woman in a men’s workboots, a man in a pair of heels. 

It’s more like a guy in skirt, heels, stockings, painted nails and makeup, or a woman going for the full Marlene Dietrich effect. And it is that which one finds a bit too much of amongst the guys on HHP - and it is that which changes the impression of the site and puts potential women members, and male members too, I dare say, off. I know there are threads on there that I just don’t click on because I just don’t want to see or read what I know is going to be there.

[FastFreddy2]

3 hours ago, Shyheels said:

As you say HHP is not meant to be a CD site, but rather a straight fashion site. I would say however there are a few members who stray well across that line.

I have to say, I have never seen it as such, and I would even go as far as to say there is more (real) fashion interest here?

 

Quote

I think most people’s idea of CD is rather more flamboyant than someone borrowing a single item of clothing from the other shelf - a woman in a men’s workboots, a man in a pair of heels.

I would tend to agree, especially with the North American mindset. Over here I would suggest CD and androgynous are seen as a pair, rather than CD/TV as a pair as it might be in North America. 

In many minds and often female ones, any man wearing women's shoes, would be considered a TV - full stop. But TV is and always should be, given to mean "pass" as or intended to pass as the opposite sex (trans - to crossover). Anything less, ie man wearing skirt, ought to be considered cross-dressing. I think the merging in the North American mindset of CD and TV has brought a lot of bad press to people, men especially, because there is some automatic merging of men wearing feminine attire to being a sex worker. This seems to be especially true in South America, the home of cheap (bad) implants and men making money dressed as women.

 

Quote

It’s more like a guy in skirt, heels, stockings, painted nails and makeup, or a woman going for the full Marlene Dietrich effect. And it is that which one finds a bit too much of amongst the guys on HHP - and it is that which changes the impression of the site and puts potential women members, and male members too, I dare say, off. I know there are threads on there that I just don’t click on because I just don’t want to see or read what I know is going to be there.

Whether the person becoming feminised to that degree would see themselves as such, I'm sure everyone else would perceive that as participating in transvestite activity, whether the person doing it liked that label or not.

I have had some light experience of girls not being adverse to their otherwise straight boyfriends dressing up as women. I have pictures taken over 30 years ago of an actor dressed as a girl, that was so convincing I would have gladly found out the hard way she was a he. "She" was gorgeous. In fact better looking than his (her) girlfriend who wasn't exactly shabby herself. As a couple, they took care of me (dressed) and my girlfriend on our first outing as "two girls".  Neither the actor nor his girlfriend were afraid of the camera. I sometimes wonder if I've seen him since on television or in films. I would have no idea.  

While I don't ever remember having sex with my then girlfriend with me dressed as a girl, I got plenty of encouragement to dress up from her. And she actually bought me the 6" Covergirl shoes I've mentioned before, as a surprise present to get the ball rolling. I don't ever remember asking about them, she just produced them one day.

My next girlfriend was interested in doing the deed with me dressed up, and was disappointed it only happened the once. I suppose for girls/women, it could be like sleeping with someone of the same sex, without actually sleeping with someone of the same sex? The excitement without the guilt? Who knows, and it certainly isn't for everyone (every girl). I suppose a lot depends on what your exposed to, what is 'normal' or not unusual in your social environment. In my time, Boy George and Marilyn were in the newspapers and magazines of the day. New Romantics were about, with members of Duran Duran wearing full feminine face make-up. Me going out dressed as a girl wasn't that weird, and the other two couples we used to hang around with knew all about it. One couple even told us to pop around in the early hours, so they could have a look-see, which we did. But other than these special nights out, I never wore feminine clothing, nor high heels. (Though I used to do the ironing in heels - which I still do?)  The whole raison d'être of the TV thing for me,  was to go out socially in high heels and not have people pointing fingers ....  Seems contradictory now, but seemed a completely obvious solution to my high heel needs 30 years ago. The environment lent itself to the situation, as did my hairline, figure, long fingernails and clear skin. Back then my full head of long hair, wrinkle free skin, full lips, long fingernails and a figure most young women these days can only dream about, made my conversion fairly easy. And being honest, I've always enjoyed wearing tight clothing so wearing a foundation (to feminise my shape a bit) and wearing a skirt was not at all uncomfortable.

So Mrs Freddy having to endure a 50-60 minute car journey so I can spend some time out in heels, is a significantly easier situation than the work I used to put into going out 30 years ago.   Though me being out in a heel does happen a lot more frequently these days than it did back then.  

Edited February 20, 2018 by FastFreddy2

[Shyheels]

I would certainly agree that there is more real fashion discussion going on here than on HHP. Far more. 

In fact there is very little in the way of general fashion discussion there. There is a section in the bottom part for general fashion threads, but it is seldom visited or posted upon and even there it is nearly all about men wearing women’s clothing - skirts, stockings etc. 

Don’t get me wrong, I like HHP but aspects of it make me feel quite uncomfortable too. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Shyheels

[FastFreddy2]

17 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

There is a section in the bottom part for general fashion threads, but it is seldom visited or posted upon and even there it is nearly all about men wearing women’s clothing - skirts, stockings etc. 

Don’t get me wrong, I like HHP but parts of it make me feel quite uncomfortable too. 

And there's me thinking you were man of the world, used to seeing any number of peculiarities and taking them all in your stride?   

Unless you mean there are some things seen that don't go any further than being in bad taste.....  Wholly unattractive.  A couple of my pet hates are hairy legs seen through hose (dark tights perhaps). Or stocking'd legs and the hose is too short for the legs, with the tops ending not much above the knee. Another unattractive image is a big hairy belly poking out of the top of a skirt waistline. Hairy arms with tattoo's wearing a dress. (Male or female. ) In fact anyone that has feminine attire on, and has hair anywhere other than the top of their head. Just doesn't work for me. (I really dislike body hair. Given the chance, I'd have all mine permanently removed.)

I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing that goes into the sexually offensive territory, or people would complain surely.  

[Shyheels]

There have been things that strayed well over the line but Tech was quick to pounce and the images and the people who posted them are gone. He really is quite good about that. 

As for me, yes I am a man of the world and have seen many strange and astounding things in my time, and don't get bothered by much. In general I move on. But I like being involved with HHP and the generally interesting and offbeat people one finds there, and the notion of a site where one can chat about boots, shoes and fashion - as well as other topics, further afield. I just wish there was not this cross-dressing aspect to it, which has zero appeal to me and makes me not want to be involved with it. 

I'm not shocked by it, just put off to the extent that I feel uncomfortable with those aspects of the site, and wish that part were different. 

[Tacchi Alti]

Well, Jeremy, I hope you've enjoyed the welcome and the plethora of posts your entrance has generated! It is quieter in here simply because there are fewer members. There are just a handful of regular contributors here, but of course the site only thrives if we contribute! So please continue to post.

I've never understood the perceived difference between transvestite and cross-dresser, as etymologically they mean exactly the same thing. However, according to those differences, I see myself very definitely as a cross-dresser - I've never been into the pretend female look although I experimented with it simply as seeing it as a means of wearing heels publicly with no stigma so long as I wasn't 'read'. I'm with Freddy on this! The cross-dressing desire has receded with me, as it was always the shoes that were the attraction, and I now wear them regularly in public, under long trousers. Also, my wife accepts that, while she hates me dressing in stockings, skirt, etc. The heels can fulfil some medical requirement (backache in flat shoes, no backache in heels), but other things are just feminising in her view, and I certainly wouldn't wear them in public unless it was to a specific event like a drag do, but then we're not party animals anyway.

[Shyheels]

As for me I am about as likely to wear a skirt as I would be to wear a burka....

[FastFreddy2]

2 hours ago, Tacchi Alti said:

I've never understood the perceived difference between transvestite and cross-dresser, as etymologically they mean exactly the same thing.

The alternative, is that any man wearing a woman's shoe or boot is a transvestite. That term wouldn't sit well with me, since I don't wear women's underclothing which would be considered typical or expected under, such a label. I vaguely remember this being discussed previously, and a third category was mentioned. (I'll try to find it.) 

P.S.

Might have been described as a 'freestyle' dresser. (A term I recall mentioning more usually associated with snowboarding. Quite apt given the 2018 Winter Olympics are currently underway.)

 

Quote

I've never been into the pretend female look although I experimented with it simply as seeing it as a means of wearing heels publicly with no stigma so long as I wasn't 'read'. I'm with Freddy on this! The cross-dressing desire has receded with me, as it was always the shoes that were the attraction, and I now wear them regularly in public, under long trousers. Also, my wife accepts that, while she hates me dressing in stockings, skirt, etc. The heels can fulfil some medical requirement (backache in flat shoes, no backache in heels), but other things are just feminising in her view, and I certainly wouldn't wear them in public unless it was to a specific event like a drag do, but then we're not party animals anyway.

I'm pretty sure most women, especially those past the "curious" stage in their lives (if there was one) would find men in skirts and stockings quite a turn off. But the games couples play never ceases to amaze (and sometimes worry) me. 

One of the shockers of recent times was a revelation from K.a.t.i.e. P.r.i.c.e. (glamour model of some notoriety) about the times when she was married to A.l.e.x. R.e.i.d. (mixed martial arts and cage fighter). It seems her spouse had a feminine persona and Ms P.r.i.c.e. would use a sex toy on him. She is reported to have said on daytime television, the marriage ended "because she didn't want to play the man." Now most people would be astounded to find a multi-millionairess glamour model and published author of some 20 years standing, married a man about as tough as they get, yet in the bedroom their roles were reversed. When two high profile media personalities come out with something like this, a man wearing high heels becomes insignificant.  

 

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

As for me I am about as likely to wear a skirt as I would be to wear a burka....

Twice a year, for about 10 minutes each time, I try on a very tight knee length pencil skirt. I do it because I can. I'd like to wear this sort of thing in the street, not to feminise myself, but because I like the sensation on my hips and legs. I might wear holdups (in summer instead of leggings under my jeans) for the same reason - touch rather than look. It's the sensation against a shaved leg. I think I wore a pair once during the whole of 2017, and really pushed the boat out in 2016 by wearing them 3 times. It would be hard to describe myself as a transvestite under these rather limited circumstances, but would accept I have a limited interest in cross-dressing. I actually prefer androgynous, with me having a big foot in the male camp, and a much smaller foot in the female camp as it were.

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by FastFreddy2
Added postscript.

[Shyheels]

I have never had even the least bit of curiosity about wearing women’s clothes, nor the least bit of interest in doing so. I liked knee boots for ages and wished the style was open to men, but I never really saw them as women’s boots - rather a style predominately worn by women. A difference. Heels were not really part of the deal for me and, in fact, my otk boots are all low/flat heeled ones.

The interest in heeled boots came as more of a sense of daring to push the boat out, and a bit of an adventure. Much as I enjoy wearing them - and I do enjoy my wearing my stiletto-heeled boots - there is a sense of ‘holiday’ about them, more a bit of theatre and escape, whereas my regular otk boots are just simply my boots. 

[FastFreddy2]

19 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

The interest in heeled boots came as more of a sense of daring to push the boat out, and a bit of an adventure. Much as I enjoy wearing them - and I do enjoy my wearing my stiletto-heeled boots - there is a sense of ‘holiday’ about them, more a bit of theatre and escape, 

Me and a skirt, it's exactly so. 20 minutes a year, if I've been a good boy! 

And men have been wearing skirts and dresses for thousands of years, longer than they've been wearing a heel. It's 'theatre' to me, dress up for a short while. I'm comfortable in almost any clothing. I don't perceive it to be sexed or sexualised. It's all about comfort and movement. 

[Shyheels]

You should move to Fiji. Skirts - called sulus there - are the norm for men and women. And for precisely the reason you say - comfort and ease of movement.