Keen Diy'ers?

[FastFreddy2]

2 hours ago, Puffer said:

I don't think you do yourself justice!   'Thoroughness' is surely your middle name?

Mrs Freddy would prefer a bit less "thorough", and a bit more speed! 

[Puffer]

11 hours ago, FastFreddy2 said:

Mrs Freddy would prefer a bit less "thorough", and a bit more speed! 

As would Mrs Puffer - along with greater tidiness, less swearing and no job ever left only 95% finished. 

[FastFreddy2]

4 hours ago, Puffer said:

As would Mrs Puffer - along with greater tidiness, less swearing and no job ever left only 95% finished. 

I hardly ever swear at home, and it would be a serious problem if I did, but otherwise .....

Can't wondering if they are related? More likely .... 'typical of the species'?   

[FastFreddy2]

 

This picture cuts across several threads, but this is the one I feel is the more appropriate.

Why? (Sorry, no prizes.)

 

 

[FastFreddy2]

Disappointing no-one (Puffer) has provided an answer, nor even taken a punt at it.

The answer is the pipework leading to the radiator. The newer rad is obviously shorter than the original, but look how the pipework has been arranged! 

[Puffer]

11 hours ago, FastFreddy2 said:

Disappointing no-one (Puffer) has provided an answer, nor even taken a punt at it.

The answer is the pipework leading to the radiator. The newer rad is obviously shorter than the original, but look how the pipework has been arranged! 

I never replied originally because I couldn't fathom what the relevance of the pic was, nor what you were asking for.   I still can't, beyond the fact that the pipework is clearly altered to suit the shorter rad - nothing wrong with that, surely, and arguably neater than an extension to the rad tail?   Are the shoes significant?

I wait with bated breath ...

[FastFreddy2]

14 hours ago, Puffer said:

I never replied originally because I couldn't fathom what the relevance of the pic was, nor what you were asking for.   I still can't, beyond the fact that the pipework is clearly altered to suit the shorter rad - nothing wrong with that, surely, and arguably neater than an extension to the rad tail?   Are the shoes significant?

I wait with bated breath ...

Really?

Every one of those sharp 90' bends adds 18 inches of resistance to the circuit. A tail extension, or better a rad the same size as the original, would have removed the need for the second unsightly bend in pipework. If the same plumber had worked on the whole house, I wouldn't be looking to buy.

The shoes are only significant, if you consider their cost.  The lady of the house can afford a £400 pair of shoes, but doesn't hire a good plumber. (The original picture might have been seen on an auction site, and I couldn't believe the juxtaposition.) Every time I look at the pipework, I shudder. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by FastFreddy2

[Puffer]

You make too much of the extra bends, Freddy!   Yes, they add a little resistance but it will make little overall difference in the grand scheme of things when considering the CH system as a whole, and that rad's connections in particular.   Using self-formed pipe bends rather than elbows would be an improvement (and good practice anyway, here or anywhere in the system where space allows) but the chosen solution is a sensible one in the circumstances.   A same-size replacement rad may simply not exist  (at least from a convenient source and at an affordable price) and I know of no (single) tail extension that would make up that difference, apart from it looking ugly.

If I was faced with that job and this was the only acceptable rad, I would if at all possible lift the floor and alter the pipework so it lined up.   Alternatively, a new vertical pipe above the floor with a formed set (double bend) to give an easy entry to the valve.  Failing that, substituting a straight valve and using a formed bend (or a single elbow, if insufficient room) would improve both looks and (marginally) the flow. 

I don't think the presence of the shoes (whatever their exorbitant price) is relevant; the (lady) owner probably had no idea of the plumbing implications and the plumber she used took the easy way out, without necessarily being 'cheap'.   I've seen far worse plumbing anyway, as I know you have!

[FastFreddy2]

28 minutes ago, Puffer said:

 Failing that, substituting a straight valve and using a formed bend (or a single elbow, if insufficient room) would improve both looks and (marginally) the flow. 

I don't think the presence of the shoes (whatever their exorbitant price) is relevant; the (lady) owner probably had no idea of the plumbing implications and the plumber she used took the easy way out, without necessarily being 'cheap'.   I've seen far worse plumbing anyway, as I know you have!

The great bulk of plumbing I have seen, has been piss poor. Even as recently as a week ago I saw a newly laid waste pipe with 3 off sharp 90's used where 2 off would have done the same job. Worse, what could have been 8 inch (deep) joists, looked to have the top 4 inches cut away on 3 joists for pipework. Hopefully the span was shorter than it looked. 

The presence of the shoes indicates wealth and some sense of style. (Indicates, doesn't prove.) But the pipework suggests otherwise.  I don't own £400 shoes, but I'd never shave £10 off the cost of a replacement (larger) rad, if it meant the finished job looked as it does in the photo. Of course it functions, but I'd be embarrassed for the plumber and their client. Looks awful.   

[Puffer]

I agree entirely about the prevalence of poor plumbing, both design-wise and in its execution.   Squashed and creased pipes, uphill gradients on wastes, ruined floors and joists, ugly joints ... the list goes on.   I think most of it is simply down to a lack of imagination and consideration rather than of skill - after all, the actual pipe-fitting etc is easy enough - coupled (no pun) with the wish to minimise time and maximise profits which is all most 'tradesmen' have in mind.

I do not have any adverse opinion about the shoe-owner, beyond considering any Louboutins an extravagance.   She may have moved into the house after the alteration and is aware (or not) of its plumbing frailties, or she is totally ignorant of the poor design beyond (perhaps) disliking the untidy appearance.   If she's like my wife, however, she would be insisting on that rad/pipe being changed, regardless of its efficacy, on purely cosmetic grounds.   Only yesterday, I was bullied into replacing the chrome plug in a cloakroom basin because the existing one had a few specks of corrosion (not just limescale). 'Yes, Sybil, going to fix the moose's head in a minute ...'

[FastFreddy2]

3 hours ago, Puffer said:

If she's like my wife, however, she would be insisting on that rad/pipe being changed, regardless of its efficacy, on purely cosmetic grounds.   Only yesterday, I was bullied into replacing the chrome plug in a cloakroom basin because the existing one had a few specks of corrosion (not just limescale). 'Yes, Sybil, going to fix the moose's head in a minute ...'

Quite right too.  Rust spots can harbour bacteria, apart from the aesthetic consideration.

As I've already said, were I looking at buying a house with that grade of plumbing inside, I'd be straight out the door - without looking backward. Although were the lady of the house walking around in Louboutins, I might have to go back for a second viewing. 

[Puffer]

9 hours ago, FastFreddy2 said:

Quite right too.  Rust spots can harbour bacteria, apart from the aesthetic consideration.

As I've already said, were I looking at buying a house with that grade of plumbing inside, I'd be straight out the door - without looking backward. Although were the lady of the house walking around in Louboutins, I might have to go back for a second viewing. 

The plug was the usual chrome-on-brass, so no 'rust'.   And bacteria, if any, are hardly an issue in a cloakroom basin - as I don't expect anyone to be drinking from it (and it does not have a mains water cold supply anyway).   Come to think of it, the waste and the taps must be chock-full of bacteria - I'd better replace the lot. 

As to your rejection of the house, I doubt you will ever find one that doesn't have equally unacceptable faults!   Must be worth at least £50 off the asking price though. 

[FastFreddy2]

8 minutes ago, Puffer said:

As to your rejection of the house, I doubt you will ever find one that doesn't have equally unacceptable faults!   Must be worth at least £50 off the asking price though. 

A single problem would be just that, a 'single' problem. But (as I said) if the same "plumber" had done work throughout the house over a period of time, there'd be no adjustment on price to be debated, I would walk. 

It's hard enough to avoid poor workmanship, which is often buried, but to ignore something in plain sight? I'm temped to say 'a complete refurb opportunity if bought at rock bottom prices' might be acceptable, but given what I have here.... Maybe not even then. I don't expect others to accept my view as certainly no woman would, but it's my take on what I would get involved in, and what I would not.  

[FastFreddy2]

My house continues to offer me plumbing challenges.

Two days before Christmas (as if doing this at a weekend wasn't bad enough) the boiler has killed itself. 8 year old Worcester Bosch, and the heat exchanger is terminal. We will be using electric fan heaters to stay warm over the Christmas period.

Parts (or reasonable quality 'used' boiler) will cost circa £200/£250. Labour (I'm not allowed to commission) will double that. It's unlikely, though not impossible, our additional electricity costs will top £500 for the month it'll take me to get the pipework completed for a new combi boiler, so we are not going to try and repair the dead one.  (Though owning a mobile T.I.G. welder would have been enormously useful about now. ) 

 

I must have been a really bad person in an earlier life.... 

 

 

 

[Puffer]

Bad luck, Freddy - especially at this time.   

WB boilers, although dearer than most, are usually considered reliable and longish-lasting but I suppose it had to fail sometime.   I don't know what model you have but I think a replacement heat exchanger can be bought for under £200, and even with fitting costs would likely give you back your boiler for much less than any complete replacement - assuming the existing boiler is not otherwise potentially cream-crackered.   I would caution against buying any used boiler (complete) unless it is very new and has only recently been de-commissioned; I understand that boilers can deteriorate quite rapidly during storage out-of-use.

PM me if you want to run any ideas for the repair/replacement past me.   Meanwhile, snuggle up under a warm duvet, woman or both - and leggings and thigh-boots will help too.

[FastFreddy2]

7 hours ago, Puffer said:

Bad luck, Freddy - especially at this time.   

As my mother was (often) quoted as saying .... "If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck". 

 

7 hours ago, Puffer said:

WB boilers, although dearer than most, are usually considered reliable and longish-lasting but I suppose it had to fail sometime.   I don't know what model you have but I think a replacement heat exchanger can be bought for under £200, and even with fitting costs would likely give you back your boiler for much less than any complete replacement - assuming the existing boiler is not otherwise potentially cream-crackered.   I would caution against buying any used boiler (complete) unless it is very new and has only recently been de-commissioned; I understand that boilers can deteriorate quite rapidly during storage out-of-use.

I've looked, and the price I have for a heat exchanger (£200 delivered) is about half the price it "should" cost if I was paying for it from an authorised trade outlet. "Refurbs" are available from £60-£140, but new+boxed .... £200. 

The 'like for like' idea (in principle) meant a much quicker job than disassembling the boiler to replace the H/E. I am looking at £300 for a heating bod to do either job. At £500 to £560 to get the boiler back up and running for the month or so before the combi can be installed/commissioned, it makes financial sense to not bother.  The ancient and (for 7 years unused) immersion works enough so we have hot water, though it's not going to be left on for more than 30/40 minutes and ALWAYS supervised. Having hot water helps. I've just bought 2 fans care of Screwfix, and we also have a sexy one from John Lewis. We've no need to go cold, but the cost of not going cold is going to be a 'disappointment' when the bill comes in. If I remember, electrical energy required for heating, works out at 3 times that of gas. 

I'll send you details of the boiler, and spare part required. There's also a new gasket needed, but I don't expect that will cost much.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Bought the replacement heat exchanger last night. (C/O 'dodgy deals'.)  I had to go get it, but saved a bit of money doing so.

I had bought £30's worth of 'cold weld' materials that could be used on hot items, but on closer inspection I didn't feel the old H/E was suitable for a repair. To be honest, it looked like I had been lucky it had lasted as long as it did. Shame it didn't fail during the summer....

Assuming all goes well (it never does) my parts expenses will look like £230, which includes the two variants of cold weld putty's I will not be using, and can't be returned. Hopefully, we will have a heated house some time over the weekend. 

[Puffer]

I wish you well with the repair, Freddy.   I had thought you were going to bite the bullet and bring forward the complete boiler replacement, but the repair will buy you some time and should get you warm again rather more quickly.   Meanwhile:  leggings, jeans and thigh boots around the house.

[Shyheels]

6 minutes ago, Puffer said:

 Meanwhile:  leggings, jeans and thigh boots around the house.

Is that you or Freddy? 

[Puffer]

12 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Is that you or Freddy? 

My considered recommendation to Freddy (and indeed Mrs Freddy), pending replacement of the 'old boiler' (and I don't mean Mrs F)!!

[Shyheels]

9 minutes ago, Puffer said:

My considered recommendation to Freddy (and indeed Mrs Freddy), pending replacement of the 'old boiler' (and I don't mean Mrs F)!!

That would make an interesting look - imagine a DIY show on TV where the comperes went about in jeans, jumper and thigh boots? It would certainly be talked about....

 

[Puffer]

12 hours ago, Shyheels said:

That would make an interesting look - imagine a DIY show on TV where the comperes went about in jeans, jumper and thigh boots? It would certainly be talked about....

 

The sometimes anarchic kid's programme 'Tiswas' (on ITV 1977 - 82) was hosted by one Sally James, who quite often wore OTK boots on it.   I believe she (and her boots) gained quite a following, and postbag, from randy adolescents.   (No - I wasn't one of them; she is only a year younger than me.)

Here she is - and there is at least one video online too at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joWDBSNButM

 

[Shyheels]

Nice imagery and it shows that clearly otk boots can be acceptable wear. 

Those were nicer, easier going Times than now

Edited January 4, 2018 by Shyheels

[FastFreddy2]

Sally James ..... ahhhh, memories. 

It may not be the case, but I've always believed it's possible to spot a 'game girl', just by looking at her. In (my) reality, that often meant an internal (cor!) when watching or meeting someone. Ms James was just such a person although (boots aside) there was nothing obvious about her to suggest the likelihood of her being a 'game' girl. She was after all, best known as a children's presenter, not an out-and-out glamour (soft porn) model as may have been some of her contemporaries. A welcome reminder of a face I hadn't seen for a very long time. 

 

[FastFreddy2]

16 hours ago, Puffer said:

I wish you well with the repair, Freddy.   I had thought you were going to bite the bullet and bring forward the complete boiler replacement, but the repair will buy you some time and should get you warm again rather more quickly. 

The 'solution' has been subject to several iterations.

Originally, there was going to be a 'patch' job. I had to wait for Christmas to pass before I could acquire the two versions of the patch material. That cost me a week. When the gear turned up, I prepared the H/E for a repair, and having a closer inspection realised the H/E was actually on its last legs, and needed to be retired ASAP. 

At this time, there was still ice outside, and the thought of waiting perhaps three weeks for the revised pipework to be installed, boiler commissioned etc etc, was not at all attractive. Removing what would become redundant pipework while the system was empty seems attractive, going to bed half dressed to stay warm wasn't. I looked at 'used', but I found 'new' for £160 collected from a place very close to Bluewater. The seller was away for the New Year period, so I lost another week sourcing and acquiring the replacement H/E. 

I've just lost a couple of days trying to get replies from sellers over a new 'burner'. £67 full retail locally, £18 delivered off Ebay. 6 phone calls, 2 emails, and 1 PM today, got me nowhere. Another seller (£19-50 delivered) didn't answer until this evening. I'm going to start reassembly tomorrow evening, as I had to spend half a day doing my civic duty at a police station today, and have (yet another) dental appointment tomorrow. I have a part in the replacement kit that is completely new to me, and I will need to understand where that part belongs, before I do anything. My fear is that when reassembled, the thing won't work anyway.  With sub zero temperatures due again at the weekend, further delay would be very very frustrating. Replacing the burner is a 'luxury' I am going to live without. There's nothing wrong with the old one, but I would have preferred new since everything else is.... Ho-hum.

Installation of the new boiler is a priority, but I am struggling to work out how I should route the pipework. The boiler is going to a new location. The CH pipework is going to be completely revised. The DHW supply is going to be completely different. There are 10 rooms + garage in my house, with hallway and landings obviously. Only the entrance hallway will not need new pipework, or older pipework removed. It's a major job, that has to be carried out while we live here. Ideally, warm weather with the CH off, and us relying on a hot water cylinder heated by an immersion element for our water would be my preferred situation. I don't know we want to wait that long though. If we need it, the replacement H/E has bought me the time I need, and there's plenty of prep work I can do prior to the swap over. A like for like boiler swap is at worst a two day operation. What I'm doing is a weeks work for two people - in an empty house. Mrs F would be happy to move out for a week if everything was going to be done in a week, except we don't live in an empty house. Work time would at least double with me having to shunt stuff from one room to another, then move it back. I've no idea how often this might happen during the course of the new installation. Frankly, doing it over time is much less disruptive. Plus I get the chance to remedy complete F/U's before commissioning.

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that boiler being installed. And how much pleasure I will have removing all the obsolete pipework, even though some of it has been recently replaced by myself. THAT is going to be a great day.