Keen Diy'ers?

[Puffer 258]

Yes, that would work well enough, Freddy, but you are going to quite a lot of trouble for one job.   Simply using the router/fence (and maybe short extension pieces, likely not needed if the boards can be cut to length after routing) as I described above would be simple and effective.   After all, your routing job is about as simple as they come and, even if your groove 'wanders' slightly in a few places (easily corrected), it will neither show nor matter in a floorboard.   

Some years ago, I routed a nice rounded corner on both sides of many metres of 3 x 2 (in 3.6m lengths) to be used as visible ceiling joists in a pitched-roof conservatory, using my method.   Easy as pie.   (On the other hand, the three-dimensional trigonometry needed to work out the cutting angles at the ends, especially with the joists meeting at an apex was certainly not as 'easy as p' and involved me in writing some quite complex formulae, not indulged in since A-level.) 

You don't surprise me with the wood-yard quote; the probability is that nothing less than 100m would have been worth their (or your) while in setting-up.

[FastFreddy2 282]

2 hours ago, Puffer said:

 

 

The gremlins are in today ...

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by FastFreddy2

[FastFreddy2 282]

A couple of years ago, I bought a 'chop-saw', that looked the dead-spit for a sliding compound mitre saw. It was purchase to help dispose a huge unwanted pagoda, made of about 2 tonnes of 2x2 and 2x4 timber.

A year later I used it to cut some cloaking profile to use around a double glazed window. The profile was a round quadrant which I thought would look more attractive than the square used by the window installers. (To hide the gaps in the walls....)  Easy, thought I. Simple anyway. Set the machine up, and cut away.... 

Fortunately the profiling was cheap. Of 4 pieces, to cut, at least 2 cuts were 90 degrees out because I failed to understand which end (which half of the corner) was being cut... I got it right in the end, and it looks great. While that saw cost me £100, it'll see me for the rest of my life, and those two windows look pretty enough to have paid for the saw anyway. And did I mention the transit load of wood it cut in an afternoon? My brother-in-law was very impressed. My mate with a wood burner was less impressed when I told him a winters worth of chopped wood went to the tip...  

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by FastFreddy2

[FastFreddy2 282]

 

Does anyone here NOT think this looks like mouse droppings?

 

 

Discovered this behind a skirting board today. I hope it's old. (No I didn't test for moisture content. )

We've had a cat for a little over 2 years, and he's a 'bit of a one' for bringing the makers of this stuff home, half dead/half eaten. If we had one here still, he'd have found the maker. When I lift the floorboards close by, I'm hoping to find a dessicated carcass.

[Puffer 258]

11 minutes ago, FastFreddy2 said:

Discovered this behind a skirting board today. I hope it's old. (No I didn't test for moisture content. )

We've had a cat for a little over 2 years, and he's a 'bit of a one' for bringing the makers of this stuff home, half dead/half eaten. If we had one here still, he'd have found the maker. When I lift the floorboards close by, I'm hoping to find a dessicated carcass.

Surely a turkey would make a better lunch on Friday - the shops haven't sold out yet.

[FastFreddy2 282]

15 minutes ago, Puffer said:

Surely a turkey would make a better lunch on Friday - the shops haven't sold out yet.

 

For some, not me.  I haven't eaten dead land grown meat since circa '86.  But the cat ..... 

[FastFreddy2 282]

I have recently become aware, the HW circuit on my central heating system is getting warm, even when CH only is selected. My 3 port (aka mid position) motorised valve, may not be sealing as well as Drayton originally designed it to.  Mine is the old style, that doesn't have the 'pop-off' actuator. A complete like-for-like replacement is going to cost £53, plus I'll have to replace the inhibitor at £13-50.

Usually these are in an upstairs airing cupboard. Not mine, it's less than 3ft off the garage floor, so the WHOLE system will need draining. Great job in the middle of Winter. 

 

[Puffer 258]

Are you sure valve is at fault?   It is possible to get feedback from return in some systems.   Is the synchronous motor working properly?   I have three Honeywell two-port valves (HW; CH up; CH down - house has four storeys) at least 20 years old and all three motors have failed within the last two years.   Easily replaced at about £8 each.

If you do have to remove the valve, I suggest you inspect/clean/test it as it may well be good for another period or, if replaced, kept as a spare.a future replacement.   £13.50 seems a lot for inhibitor, unless you have to use a couple of litres.   I have drained into large containers and (after settling of black iron sludge) successfully re-used about 80% of inhibited water.   Given that a drain-down or top-up is occasionally needed, the cheapest inhibitor does the job, especially in an old system.

 

[FastFreddy2 282]

1 hour ago, Puffer said:

Are you sure valve is at fault?   It is possible to get feedback from return in some systems.   Is the synchronous motor working properly?   I have three Honeywell two-port valves (HW; CH up; CH down - house has four storeys) at least 20 years old and all three motors have failed within the last two years.   Easily replaced at about £8 each.

The heated pipe is hottest closer to the valve, though obviously as the heated water rises, the whole vertical pipe has some heat in it. I'm pretty sure there is no heat in the return pipe. (I will check later.)

When power is switched off completely, the switch returns to HW only position, which I think is the default. Manual movement of the actuator arm seems to produce some resistance (from the motor) but moves, so the valve isn't stuck.

There is a plethora of these valves at not much money on the auction site (<£20), but they look to be the newer 'clip on' styles. The valve will be redundant soon-ish, but warming up water unnecessarily, is something of an irritation. It may seem worse than usual at the moment, because we've had the heating on 24/7 due to freezing conditions outside. Perhaps I should try to ignore it for a while?

 

1 hour ago, Puffer said:

If you do have to remove the valve, I suggest you inspect/clean/test it as it may well be good for another period or, if replaced, kept as a spare.a future replacement.   £13.50 seems a lot for inhibitor, unless you have to use a couple of litres.   I have drained into large containers and (after settling of black iron sludge) successfully re-used about 80% of inhibited water.   Given that a drain-down or top-up is occasionally needed, the cheapest inhibitor does the job, especially in an old system.

 

 

My system water has been changed frequently enough so there is no loose sludge to be seen. The inhibitor I use is Sentinel x100. We have around 8 rads, (and 3 missing ) so I just tip the whole litre bottle in the system.

Reusing the water is a good idea, as I will be draining the system fairly frequently soon. While I could change all the residual rads (in preparation for the new boiler) in one go, there is work to be done behind the old rads before the new ones are fitted. It's a summer job really, but summer (2015) is long gone. 

[Puffer 258]

If the only practical issue (for now) is constant water heating, why worry?  You won't overheat anything and the extra fuel used for HW (if your boiler controls are not limiting the 'on' time much during the day) will be trivial - and you have HW whenever needed.    As I have off-peak electricity, I use an immersion heater in my cylinder for a couple of hours early morning as this is cheaper than using gas.   The cylinder stat recognises that the immersion has done its job and merely tops-up with heat via boiler during 'on' periods.

Sentinel X100 is fine - but I don't think worth the high price (unless perhaps in a new system when boiler manufacturer requires it).

[FastFreddy2 282]

11 hours ago, Puffer said:

Sentinel X100 is fine - but I don't think worth the high price (unless perhaps in a new system when boiler manufacturer requires it).

 

Okay, I'll try to ignore the warming water. 

I may have a look at other products for the inhibitor, though it'll be used when all the rads are changed and the new boiler goes in. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by FastFreddy2

[FastFreddy2 282]

Disaster struck again yesterday .... (Well, it has been a couple of weeks .... )

Our washing machine outlet goes straight into a ceramic Butler sink. It was a temporary measure, that has so far lasted years .... (I could tell you stories...)

No problems until yesterday. The cloth that usually sits across the taps, fell into the sink. Shouldn't have been a problem, as Butler sinks have a large overflow. But it was a problem ..... If the plumber mait hadn't have almost completely blocked the slot in the waste, 40+ years of assorted debris left in the overflow would have. The consequence to these interruptions in the potential waterflow, meant a duckpond in the utility room. 

Thinking I could find a way to refurb everything back into working order, I started to disassemble the waste system on the sink. Of course the nut on the waste had to be ground off, twotting the thread on the waste. Some of the outer surface of plastic on the half-trap looks to have been attacked by something, possibly acid that may have been used to unblock the sink some time ago? Anyway, that needs replacing too.

It took me the better part of an hour, to stumble across the correct name for the part I'm looking for. How was I to know, Belfast sinks, have a special type of waste? It's not something the big sheds keep - obviously. My local merchants should have one, but doesn't seem to be the case. Of the three I rang, 1 number was out of order, 1 had a option system that was so worn out it was undecipherable, and the last supplier had to order one in if I wanted one. 

Fortunately, not every plumbers merchants sells just the common bits (that might be cheaper at Screwfix/Toolstation anyway). If I can't collect the right size waste tomorrow morning, I can order one from a number places, but they will have to be posted.

There is a company in Harpenden (Herts Plumbing Supplies) that carried these, and retail them on Ebay at £13-50 delivered. I rang them and checked if they had them in stock. "Yes, a few." 

"Okay" says I, "what price are they collected?"

"Same price less carriage" the fella says to me.

"Carriage is included", I say ....

"It'll be the same (£13-50) price as shown on the listing."

"Okay, I might as well get it posted then. Thanks, bye."

So no Paypal charges. No listings charges. No packing or post charges, and they still want the whole £13-50 for a cash Trade sale? Hell will freeze over before they get a penny from me. I can get them posted for the same money in several places, plus I get to send them back if I order the wrong thing. Why am I going to pay full money if I have to collect? 

Hopefully, I'll be getting the same thing from a Trade counter elsewhere tomorrow morning.

Edited February 1, 2016 by FastFreddy2

[Puffer 258]

Traditionally, a Belfast sink has a weir overflow, a Butler sink has no overflow.   But these days both would normally have an overflow and the terms are effectively interchangeable.   I've never had to fit a new waste to one but I think the only distinguishing feature is that the top flange is normally larger than normal (c85mm); the body (slotted) would be standard and have usual 1.5" thread.   I wouldn't expect such a waste to be that hard to find locally; this from PlumbCenter, in stock at Hemel, for example:   http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/product/mcalpine-belfast-sink-waste-11-2-x-85mm/?gclid=CLnZ9OHO18oCFScFwwodXSgCDg  which appears to be slotted (see below) - but maybe you tried another branch nearer you which had none.  

I guess if you did turn up at the Harpenden merchant and simply asked for the waste by description, you would likely find that it was offered at a trade price of less than £13.50.

Or there is this:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KITCHEN-SINK-STAINLESS-STEEL-BELFAST-FARMHOUSE-60MM-BSW-STAINER-WASTE-/311279098580#shpCntId

According to this:   http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/waste-outlet-fittings/sink/sink-wastes?cat=66&flange_size=16&id=66&size=165   McAlpine does 5 slotted Belfast wastes which should do you, and ought to be available from most merchants.

This is a good price - but shipping will kill it I think:   https://www.bellabathrooms.co.uk/mcalpine-bsw6cp2h-1-centre-pin-belfast-sink-waste.html?gclid=CMSlkKLS18oCFasEwwodCr0HKQ

I'm sure I have such a waste lurking in my stores, but that's not much help to you right now.   Good luck anyway!

[FastFreddy2 282]

Thanks Puffer for your enthusiastic sourcing, but sadly, you may have slipped on a banana skin this time.   None of those links identify products suitable for a ceramic Butler sink, as the links offered look to be a type more suitable for thin walled stainless?

The item I'm looking for, is this: 

 

This one is a "Sagittarius Belfast Poly Plug Slotted Sink Waste Chrome WA578C" available >> here << for £8-50 plus carriage.

Before this afternoon, I thought "Butler" sink was a definitive type, and then found it is a genre. "London" no overflow, "Belfast" with.  And as you rightly say, a 'weir' overflow.... 

 

 

Not that mine had an effective overflow until I cleared it this afternoon .....

 

The grief doesn't end there ...

The outer diameter of the threaded 1½" waste is somewhere in the region of 45/46mm. The hole it goes through, is 70mm. I haven't measured the diameter of the correctly sized backnut, but I'm confident it'll almost fall through that 70mm hole.... The original nut (that came off in pieces) had help forming a water seal, from a generous dollop of plumbers mait held in place by some stout handcut plastic that might once have been part of a container.  It was that 'generous dollop' of plumbers mait that effectively blocked the overflow. At the moment I'm looking at having a 100mm washer made in 2mm thick aluminium (£6 delivered) to both help centralise the waste outlet and close that gap. 

Even when I get the correct (Belfast) waste, the slot is in the wrong place, or at least appears to be. The slot in the waste seems to be high. This means solids can fall out of the waste into a trough formed by the bottom of the sink overflow.

 

I may need to put a second slot (or elongate the first) to ensure the overflow outlet is vaguely in line with the waste slot to avoid the potential for debris blocking the overflow as it has done historically. Even without the overflow being blocked, it won't work as well as it might if the flow stream has an obscure path. I'll be able to work it out more easily, when I have the replacement waste. (I hope.)

My headache with this, is somewhat exacerbated by Mrs Freddy thinking I am wasting my time fixing something that only appeared broken due to a cloth blocking the sink waste. What she fails to understand is that no-one watches the washing machine emptying, so this is a liability even with a fully-functioning sink. While statistics suggest we might never have this problem again, floods don't follow any rules laid out by statistics. (As some parts of the UK are experiencing unfortunately. They have recently had 'once in a hundred years' grade floods, several times in the same month.)

Consequently, I want anything plumbing related, to be working as well as it should. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by FastFreddy2

[Puffer 258]

You may be right about the wastes I identified being (more) suitable for a thin-bottom sink; I'm not sure as the specs do not say.   A 'How to fit' video on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssNbc9iNzyQ  suggests that the sink thickness isn't relevant (although maybe the demo sink is thin) as the waste body is all below the sink.   And I can say that the McAlpine W3 looks as though it would cope with a thick bottom; it is unslotted but, being plastic, allows you to cut the necessary slot at the height you want it.   The issue you have with that height is understandable and I'm not convinced that the waste you mention will prove suitable.

McAlpine is helpful with technical queries - you could call and discuss.   Alternatively, fitting a strainer waste (as video) would surely get round the problem; these are not dissimilar to shower tray wastes but look a little smaller than ordinary sink wastes.

I know it doesn't help you but I've always been wary of Butler/Belfast sinks.   Quite apart from looking dated, heavy and sometimes ugly (although maybe now trendy!), anything porcelain in the kitchen is prone to chipping etc.   For that reason, I've no practical experience of installing/servicing one.   The sink-hole does seem over-large and the need for a sizeable washer underneath is a pain - but, if nothing suitable is available off-the-shelf (for pennies), I would expect to make one out of (say) a piece of semi-rigid plastic sheet, as did your predecessor.

Do let us know of progress - or lack of it.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Puffer
Added comment/reference

[FastFreddy2 282]

5 hours ago, Puffer said:

The issue you have with that height is understandable and I'm not convinced that the waste you mention will prove suitable.

 

Do let us know of progress - or lack of it.

The height of the waste I removed measured 90mm, the replacement is 85mm assuming the manufacturers have it right. If anything I'm hoping they have under rather than over stated the length. (Omitted the thread lead-in for example.)

The video you linked shows an ideal solution - in theory at least. That "extra long" bolt went fully into the strainer during the demo, but didn't touch the waste that was held in place underneath, as it dropped through. Suggesting, the bolt still wasn't quite long enough? I went to their web site, and they don't have any 'waste fittings' info. What I especially liked about the style, was the size of the lower cup, that not only removed the apparent need for a large 100mm 'penny' washer, but also meant the overflow outlet couldn't be somewhere that was going to create a trough for debris. 

 

This morning I have used the original (here when we bought the place) 40mm washing machine (drain) pipework. It wasn't used by me initially because our w/machine outlet wasn't 100% compatible with the pipework. At the time, tie-wraps created an immediate solution by allowing me to fix the w/machine outlet pipe around the sink taps. It's something that has worked well long enough for me to forget about any other solution. The sink is going, as the utility room is destined to be part of a new kitchen - one day 'soon'. Looking at what (at this very moment) seems to be a fully functioning w/machine, and a sink we don't otherwise need/want, I am wondering whether spending £20 on bits and 3 hours work time for the satisfaction of fixing a problem, is actually worthwhile. 'Worker' me is saying "yes of course". 'Manager' me is saying, "remove the sink altogether and skip it". It has some damage to it, a minor chip on an upper edge somewhere if I remember, so is likely worthless. We did promise it to the previous owner of the house, as/when it was removed, but the amount of bodges found around her old home have put her on our s*** list. 

I'm only on my second cup of coffee, so not yet fully awake. If Mrs Freddy can spend the day using the w/machine without the utility room being flooded again, I think the sink might be going, though the 40mm w/machine drain still might need some fortifying. This being the house it is, the wall mounting - clip - is broken. Almost 2m of pipe in the shape of an "L" and only one (broken) clip to hold it in place ...  It explains the attraction of the w/machine outlet pipe staying tied to the sink taps. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by FastFreddy2

[Puffer 258]

2 hours ago, FastFreddy2 said:

The height of the waste I removed measured 90mm, the replacement is 85mm assuming the manufacturers have it right. If anything I'm hoping they have under rather than over stated the length. (Omitted the thread lead-in for example.)

The video you linked shows an ideal solution - in theory at least. That "extra long" bolt went fully into the strainer during the demo, but didn't touch the waste that was held in place underneath, as it dropped through. Suggesting, the bolt still wasn't quite long enough? I went to their web site, and they don't have any 'waste fittings' info. What I especially liked about the style, was the size of the lower cup, that not only removed the apparent need for a large 100mm 'penny' washer, but also meant the overflow outlet couldn't be somewhere that was going to create a trough for debris. 

...

We can't really tell in video if the spigot/bolt reached the threaded insert, at least enough to engage.   It may be that it merely went to one side during the demo.   I have found that the standard sink strainer wastes tend to have a long spigot (which wastes my time doing it up!) so maybe you would be lucky with a thicker Belfast sink.   And it did look rather as though a standard sink waste was being used, hence the unnecessary overflow outlet capped off.   Worth a try if you are not abandoning the Belfast.

[FastFreddy2 282]

At the moment, I remain undecided. I will use the link on my phone, and show the Plumbing Suppliers when I get there. which is likely to be Friday now. I've been asked to help remove a cast iron soil pipe in a house I worked on recently, and the day for doing the job is tomorrow.  No soil pipe means no toilet, so two of us are going to give it go. The toilet needs to be back in action by late afternoon. Everyone thinks it's straightforward. I know what's coming. It's far from straightforward which is why I may have been invited. I never, ever get asked to do what are really easy jobs. 

I have a saying that I often mention to people when they watch me .... "If it was easy, someone else would be doing it." The other side of that thinking is; 'do I make it hard work?' Only if it needs doing well, would be my answer.  

[FastFreddy2 282]

As expected ....  

All but the last 14 inches of the soil pipe are out. Some extra special cutting with a grinder will be required to remove the last section.

We ran out of time today, so an emergency installation of the new soil pipe was carried out, so toilet functions could be restored. Was ever so slightly frustrating seeing all my previous refurbishment being removed after such a short space of time. That said, it very much needed to be done. During the last two months I have cleared a complete blockage in the kitchen drain almost immediately adjacent to the soil stack, and the same on the first floor where the shower and basin waste entered a cast branch on the soil stack. On the kitchen branch, further investigation today has us finding the (previously) cleared blockage only led to another point in the branch that was almost as badly blocked. In fact the dirty kitchen water has a flow route the size of an adults little finger. Almost any kitchen debris could have produced backed up water.

The first floor branch was even worse. While water was obviously draining away, it was hard to imagine how, given the amount of semi-solid debris in the cast branch. Replacing the soil stack and its cast branches, wasn't done a day too soon. 

 

[Puffer 258]

8 hours ago, FastFreddy2 said:

As expected ....  

All but the last 14 inches of the soil pipe are out. Some extra special cutting with a grinder will be required to remove the last section.

...

The first floor branch was even worse. While water was obviously draining away, it was hard to imagine how, given the amount of semi-solid debris in the cast branch. Replacing the soil stack and its cast branches, wasn't done a day too soon. 

 

Not the nicest of jobs.   Been there, done that - and found my 9" angle grinder essential.   At least, when you take the cast iron to the scrappy, you will get a bit extra if you leave the c**p inside. 

[FastFreddy2 282]

15 hours ago, Puffer said:

Not the nicest of jobs.   Been there, done that - and found my 9" angle grinder essential.   At least, when you take the cast iron to the scrappy, you will get a bit extra if you leave the c**p inside. 

 

We just leave the metal on the grass verge outside, and it mysteriously disappears.  There is so little of it, there's no reward in selling it as the journey costs more than the income. Bit different with the copper though.  The fella I am helping is practically a copper magnet. 

This is my third soil pipe replacement, and second cast replacement. At the moment I can't think of anything changed/repaired less often? Most roofs need (some) re-pointing after 20-30 years....  

 

Today's injuries ....

Took the naked (illegal) metal grinding blade across the top of my L/H index finger again. Fortunately nothing like as impressive as yesterdays cut.

Gave the underneath of my left wrist a proper thump with a 4lb club hammer. Didn't seem to be a problem until I got home. That's when I found the lump, which then induced the previously unfelt pain.

Tomorrow I will be using my SDS drill in hammer mode, to reduce two air-brick (cinder) partition walls, to rubble. Mrs Freddy has asked what time I want the ambulance to attend? Bit of a worry .... 

 

[FastFreddy2 282]

While my SDS hammer drill got used to bring down two cinder walls last week, I didn't get to use my tool much. The fella I was helping wouldn't put it down. 

Injuries? Think I may have had a bit of cinder block clump me on the side of the head. Got a sore bit there from somewhere ...

 

Twice over the weekend I needed the sink with the missing waste, so Tuesday morning I went to the plumbers merchants in the next town, and bought the replacement waste for a little over £8.  Just need to sort out the large washer now ... I've been keeping an eye out for some suitable plastic.  Failing that, I'll order up a 2mm aluminium one.

This weeks job, to help install a replacement combi. Hopefully a 2 day job, as I need to spend some time on my own project. Not that I haven't got other work queued elsewhere too. 

And very soon, I'll need to look again at that allotment. 

 

[FastFreddy2 282]

The replacement boiler is in, though I had very little to do with it other than arrange the engineer and be his second set of hands. While installing the flue through the tiled roof, it was suggested to me we BOTH might have to stand on the upper surface of the house.... I mentioned I was not keen, but would try.

My first foot onto the roof had me sliding, so that idea was 'canned' The heating engineer, a foot taller and possibly 5 stones heavier, then ventured out while I did my bit through a hole created by moving two roof tiles. It all went well after that. The view was good, providing an exceptionally lofty vision of the sunset.  

Unfortunately, the boiler commissioning didn't go as well. Some 15 minutes into the cycle, I noticed a tiny leak. By the time the system was drained down (which it didn't want to do) much water had been sprayed onto a lower floor ceiling. Time was the biggest problem with too much remedial work to do after an already hectic/stress filled day. I got away at 10.15pm. I can't tell you how many times I ran up and down stairs opening and closing values and bleed vents. Suffice to say, today I feel like I'd been hit by a car. (I actually have, so speak with experience.) The top of my right hand is shredded, and it feels like I have at least 2 splinters in the sensitive part of two different fingers. My shoulders feel like they spent the night in a crusher. My eyes still feel like they are full of dust from the roofing material that was removed, and my head is 'swimming', possibly from dehydration. I drank very little fluid yesterday, and none after around 6pm until today.

I've got to go back later today, in the hope the wetted ceiling is dry enough for me to close the flooring, and have a tidy up. What an exotic life I live. 

[FastFreddy2 282]

The 'nightmare' continues .....

Got back to the site yesterday to find there had been another leak during the night, even more water across the lower floor ceilings. The leak had been fixed by the time I arrived but it meant I had a wasted journey as the plasterwork was still soaking wet.  

This morning I get a phone call, pressure is being lost from CH circuit .... so the boiler closes down. There's a good reason boiler changes aren't done during the coldest part of the year ..... So back there again, sometime today, but during daylight hours.

[FastFreddy2 282]

Spent 3 hours last evening (I know how to live-it-up on a Saturday night ), searching for a leak in the CH system. Checked every visible inch of 6 radiators, and their furniture. Also checked every inch of the new boiler connections, visible and those hidden under the floorboards.

Nothing.

I've 'trained' up two tenants how to top up the system, although the landlord didn't like that much. I then explained what the boiler pressure relief value is for. He lives around a mile from the dwelling, I'm about 13 miles, and he still expects me to go remedy the situation... I've got better things to do than waste an hour doing something someone else can do after going up some stairs or walking out to a landing from their bedroom....

"Next"?