Keen Diy'ers?

[FastFreddy2]

The money you saved on gas by not having the boiler on will pay for the new receiver. ;-)

 

I'm sure it made a contribution.   

 

If I remember, part of the sales patter for the Honeywell controller (Thermostat) is that it can save 10% on the heating bill by some of the technology it uses. Certainly I can see how it will save us money over Winter ..... We often leave the heating on 24/7 when it gets really cold because it takes so long to warm up a cold house. [i once house-sat a large house that took 2 days to warm up again as I foolishly left the heating off overnight when I slept elsewhere one night.]

 

With this 7 event controller, we will be able to keep the heating 'ticking-over' during the night while we sleep, and then get the normal temp back for when we rise in the morning. Same with the day/evening. Keeping the place warmer than it would be if the heating was off, and cooler than it might be if we left with the heating on. Given the price of gas, I would hope to get the cost of the replacement back in one or two Winters.   

 

Only drawback seems to be the necessity to have completed a degree course in programming.     

[FastFreddy2]

Well...... The 7 day programmer is on the wall, and working. As it turned out, programming it was easy/simple, if a bit laborious. 

 

It took a telephone conversations with 3 heating engineers, and one with the manufacturers to find out how it should be wired up. Seems the original installer didn't/doesn't wire up the junction box to the connection wiring map in the box. He also wanted £50 to come to my door, even though he lives less than a mile away. I offered him £20 for what turned out to be a 2 minute job but he declined. ["The call out charge is £50."]

 

An obliging fella who offered some free telephone advice from 20 miles away helped, as did a mate who lives almost 50 miles away. The manufacturer had to be reminded that two pins weren't actually connected internally (I'd already checked) before they could give me the advice that would confirm my mate (50 miles away) had given me the right advice to start with. Once the original installer told me he ignored the wiring map and "connected what I needed to, where I wanted", with the help from the manufacturer I worked out what the wiring solution was. Given how badly the new boiler pipework has been done here, I can't begin to express how much I don't like that installer.... 

 

 

 

Update: Fence.

 

 

Piccy of the broken/missing fence ...... 

 

The weather here is improving, or was .... We've recently had some dry weather and it looked like the fence was going to be scheduled for replacement. Then it rained - a lot. Then we got -2 degrees C. It's officially Spring here at the moment, and we got the lowest recorded temperature this year! (Not good for mortar or cement.) This job might have to wait a couple more weeks. If I have to replace the rotten/broken manhole cover, that's not a 5 minute cementing job. Needs to be done in dry not-cold weather.

 

 

Update: Toilet.

 

 

Having taken my own advice, I did some research on You Tube. Found ONE SINGLE comment, about using a toilet connector to soil pipe. An old fella made an almost casual remark; "You can't put a connector directly into the soil stack, you have to use a short piece of soil pipe to pack out the connector junction." Which immediately told me why the blinking connector I'd fitted was travelling deeper into the soil stack over time!

 

So I acquired a piece of soil stack, and stuck it in place using something called Plumbers Gold. Wonderful stuff, if more expensive than similar products. Waited a day for it to go solid, then put the toilet back in. 

 

This time around, the toilet connector wouldn't go into the soil stack anything like as far as it would before. (So initial problem solved - hopefully.) But it occurred to me, the new angle the connector sat at, seemed to put some strain on the toilet end of the connector? I measured the location of the toilet outlet position (in the absence of the 3D scanner) and found the outlet was a bit higher than was obvious before. When the connector was looser in the soil pipe, it was effectively able to accommodate the rise. Now located more tightly, the connector was not so happy about the rise. The replacement toilet adapter to connector was replaced again but this time with an offset connector that effectively dropped the position of the toilet outlet around an inch. Once trial-connected, the revised connector position was checked for slope (downwards) and it still had one. Ideal!

 

When the toilet was refitted, it was obvious that the connector couldn't move. The alignment was improved, so there is unlikely to be another leak.

 

 

But there was.

 

Not from the outlet this time, but from the close-coupled joint! Me moving it around had unsettled something, and I had to take the system apart - again. 

 

When I had moved the toilet around, I didn't undo the close-coupling. To be honest, there seemed little need, and I didn't want to undo something that worked well. Except now it didn't. Once apart, I decided to do the job I had planned, and tooled up for. When the toilet was first installed, the inlet hole was undersize. I "bodged" an inlet (all my bodges come with a 5 year warranty BTW) and had to date, made buying sintered diamond hole drills unnecessary - though i had bought them anyway. While I was at it, I also bought stainless steel bolts and washers to replace the rusting (treated) steel ones supplied with the toilet.

 

I also wanted to replace the what the trade call the "rubber doughnut" that seals the join. I have a 2" pipe, which is larger than the more usual 1½" pipe, making the right size doughnut hard to find at short notice. I made do.

 

Once the cistern was stripped down, I spent the better part of 15 minutes resizing the inlet hole, to full-size. The cistern didn't come with any wall fixing kit, and without any holes for screwing it to a wall either? Yet the Fitting Destructions said not to completely bolt down the cistern to the pan, meaning the cistern could float around if it wanted to? So I used the 11mm sintered diamond drill I'd also bought to put a single fixing hole in the high/middle of the cistern while I was at it.

 

I packed out  every loose connection with PTFE tape to make sure anything going through a hole was centralised. I used Plumbers Gold where I never expect to break a join, and LS-X where I expect to undo one. I used LS-X on the upper and lower faces of the foam doughnut supplied with the toilet. I'll get a sturdier 2" rubber one, for the next time the toilet is moved.

 

At this stage, I find it hard to imagine how the blinking toilet can leak .... Though I assume nothing.       

Edited March 25, 2014 by FastFreddy2

[FastFreddy2]

Had been looking to try out the sintered diamond disc on my small angle grinder, and the hammer action on my SDS drill over the past couple of days with a view to making some progress on the fence panel replacement .....

 

Yesterday we had snow.......

 

Today we had several hail storms, accompanied by lightning - which must have quite close given how quickly the thunder followed.

 

Apparently (he writes, tongue in cheek) we are due to have a warm (20 C) and dry weekend. Can't wait. 

[FastFreddy2]

Update:

 

We had some dry weather, I removed some 6" deep concrete from around a manhole cover to enable it's replacement, and for me to erect some new fencing. Currently, it being Spring, I am waiting for the panels to be made and supplied. "Busy time of year" the man said, and a lot of panel damage due to high winds during the New Year...... (Like mine!)

 

Toilet hasn't leaked, and doesn't move around either, as it did before.

 

We have had another water leak, just outside the upstairs toilet. Looks to have been leaking for some time. Nearly lost the ceiling underneath, but I found the leak before the ceiling below it got fully saturated and loaded with water. Had I gone to bed at a sensible time, it might have been a different story.

 

LOADS of photo's to follow.   

[FastFreddy2]

Been a bit lax with this. Taken the photo's and not posted - Naughty.

 

Currently working on a (rich) mates property. Chiselling out a slice of foundation to lay a new 4" soil pipe into the main drain. Literally back-breaking work, and quite a challenge. We are carefully removing 60 year old industrial grade concrete from around the old clay waste system which must stay working until we finish the excavation work.

 

Our friendly plumber said he wouldn't touch the job so we are doing the work under his guidance. The bit we are doing at the moment is builders work, but it needs a level of care that money might not buy. My tools (breaker and 9" cutter) with my experience of concrete cutting have proved useful. Again, I'll do some photo's. 

[FastFreddy2]

Still no photo's? 

 

We did the digging out, but time has stopped us filling in. Cold weather has arrived, and it's now either too wet or too cold to fill in the huge recess we made... oops!

 

 

I finally managed to get the two replacement fence panels up and finished in my back garden. Apparently the neighbour was very pleased to see them up. I still have to finish off the man-hole cover, but rain and temperature has slowed that down a bit. (I am actually quite keen to get the job finished now the hard bit is out of the way.)

 

Two days of moderate weather (promised for the coming weekend) should see the job concluded. The down-side is, this time last year we had two fence panels and a manhole cover. 12 months and probably 2 to 3 weeks work later, we still only have 2 fence panels and a manhole cover. I suppose the difference is, given how long the originals lasted, the new panels and cover will outlast me. Not sure that's a good thing for me though?

 

Have been taking pictures along the journey, so need to post them too.    

[FastFreddy2]

As long as the concrete hardens without cracking (6 or 7 degrees C here over the next couple of days) I may have finally finished the man-hole cover restitution. 

 

Did pictures over the weekend that I will post soon.  

[FastFreddy2]

The "leak" fairy paid a visit to my plumbing system -again- yesterday.

 

I'd heard a noise during the day that sounded like my neighbour was doing some work on our joining wall. I ignored it.

 

Hours later, the noise could still be heard, but was more frequent and seemed to be more noticeable. I began to realise it sounded like dripping water. Within minutes I had discovered the cause.... The 22mm bore pipework that makes up our hot water supply system, had sprung yet another leak.

 

It took me the better part of 15 minutes to find the hole, as some of the bathroom floor had to come up. This time the 'cancer' in the pipe finally had me beat, because the leak was on a bend which meant I couldn't use my tried and tested 'patch' technique to effect a temporary repair. With old bath towels placed to soak up the dripping water I proceeded to empty about 50 gallons each of water from both storage tanks, one of which was expensive heated water....   

 

Faced with (finally) replacing a 3m run of 22mm pipe with fittings (£30's worth of materials alone) I decided to use 15mm as it seemed I had accumulated all the bits needed to do that. Though any investment was only short term as a revised system is going in, one way or the other this year......

 

So I got replacement pipe job finished about 2.30am with Mrs Freddy hopefully having slept through the work. 

 

Feeling pleased with myself, and while the system was dry, I decided to install an in-line valve to the (current) kitchen sink. Big mistake. Having cut the pipe, I couldn't fit the valve, as there wasn't enough 'wiggle' room in the pipe run. (In fact there wasn't any movement at all!) So I'm thinking, I'll just cap it off, and leave for daylight the next day? No.... Historically, I've had to force mains water back up into the warm tap to remove an air lock that prevents the hot water system working. No hot tap in kitchen, no hot tap anywhere.....

 

Eventually I got my 'wiggle' room by breaking the already damaged fitment that held the tap in place. No big deal as the whole reason for fitting the valve was to change the taps anyway, but 3am definitely wasn't the time to do this job.   

 

Once the kitchen tap was again operational, it took another 10/15 minutes to fill the first (cold) tank which then feeds the second (hot) tank. As expected, the hot side wouldn't run (air lock) so I had to use the cold mains into hot system trick. A further 10/15 minutes later, I had running water from the hot side too. With 4 sinks, a toilet and a bath, it took a little while to get all the air out of both systems, but it did all come good. I put the boiler on to heat water, just to make sure everything was going to work for Mrs Freddy first thing. It also gave me a little time for a tidy up too.

 

Heated water arrived (eventually) around 4.30am. I had a quick wash, brushed my teeth, and climbed into bed 15 minutes later.

 

 

The only upside to this event, is that a fairly long run of pipework, known to past it's useful life, has been replaced. I noticed, when I removed the grotty pipework, at least one other hole had already began the early stage of leaking. There had only been maybe 10 or 20 drips, but a full-blown leak was possibly only a couple of weeks away.

 

The kicker - as always - is that I seem to find these leaks later in the day, not 9 or 10am in the morning when I would have the (luxury) of doing a repair in daylight. 

[Puffer]

I sympathise with your problem, Freddy, and its bad timing.   I assume the 22mm pipe was copper; it is uncommon for such to leak (other than at an ill-made joint) in the absence of external damage, but presumably internal corrosion has taken place over a number of years, possibly triggered by an impurity or foreign matter.   What did the damaged area look like?   Or was the leak in fact from a fitting or joint rather than somewhere on a formed bend in the pipe itself?

 

How did you effect a repair, e.g. by removing a whole section and joining each end?   Did you use soldered couplings or what?

 

When a leak in a pipe itself only affects a short straight length (say half an inch), it may be easiest to cut the pipe at that point and fit a coupling over the problem area.   If there is little 'wiggle' room (lateral play), one can use a copper coupling with the central stop filed away to make a slip coupling and slid it onto one end of the pipe before pulling it back onto the other to bridge the cut/damage.   Similarly, a longer bridging-piece with a coupling each end might be easier to fit in certain locations, or if damage is greater.

 

Whilst I much prefer working in copper with soldered end-feed capillary fittings, I have grown to recognise the advantages of plastic pipe and/or fittings in some applications.   Fitting a push-fit plastic coupling in an awkward location such as yours might have been easier - and safer too if soldering was likely to cause damage to the surroundings or is hampered by residual water in the pipe.

 

Finally, I am puzzled that you had to empty both cisterns (tanks), at least completely.   Were you not able just to shut-off the cold incoming supply and then drain enough from the hot cylinder to stop it gobbing over into the defective hot outlet pipe?   (If not, then you have some pretty important valves missing - as I think you now realise!)

 

Fingers crossed ...

 

Puffer

[FastFreddy2]

Thanks Puffer for all the sound advice. I too am 'old school' in that end-feed soldered joints are my preferred method of connection. Despite me saying I will use plastic, I still haven't, even though it might make life a tad easier.....

 

 

Short history of the place I live in .....

 

The whole plumbing system in my house was routed by a certifiable lunatic. Joints don't seem to have been cleaned after soldering either, and the job was obviously 'piece-work' done on a Friday afternoon after a liquid lunch. In at least three places, I have found pipework position higher than the lowest point of the floorboards. How was this amazing feat achieved? In two places the floorboards had bumps in them, on the third, the pipe was crimped by the floorboard. My next door neighbour keeps telling me these house are really well built. Recent personal experience suggests otherwise.....

 

 

So....

 

The house was thrown together around the middle of the 1970's, or there abouts. Seems there was a copper shortage, so pipe was made with ingredients that haven't stood the test of time. In 'the trade' the copper is now known to have been defective, and it's referred to as 'copper cancer'. One of the pictures on an earlier page shoes what it looks like close up.

 

There are perhaps 3 off 22mm pipe runs in my house, that are prone to this problem. All have hot water running through them. The cold 22mm pipes don't seem to be suffering, nor -so far- does the heating system and the inhibitor may be helping with that.

 

The leak we had a couple of days ago, was in a pipe run I had effected a temporary repair to, 3 times already. The 'patch' repairs worked, and I have a product/system that removes the leak in about 15 minutes without doing anything other than fitting a patch. Cutting the rotten bit out of the pipe never seemed attractive, because the joint may not have enough material left around it to tolerate soldering, nor enough material to hold an olive ring inside a coupling (though I did use 1 where there was no other choice.)

 

This time around, the leak was on a bend, so no patch possible. I have a 15mm pipe bender, but as yet, no 22mm pipe bender. I could have given in (having avoided changing the just under 3m pipe run three times already) and used 22mm elbows for corners, but these need a lot more heat and access wasn't easy. I elected to use reducers, and effectively replace the 22mm run with 15mm pipe. The run included dipping under a partition wall, and resurfacing in the bathroom. (Pictures to follow.)

 

 

The details of the job .....

 

To get at the leak position, I had to cut 3 floorboards, without cutting pipes or electric underneath. When I found the leak, I realised a patch wasn't going to work. Towels were used to catch/absorb water already leaked out, and more water as it came out. I turned off mains water in the loft, and began draining the tanks as the pipe to be worked on had to be completely empty of water, so ALL the cold/hot fill was emptied. If I had locked off the water supply, a vacuum would have held water in the pipes.

 

I cut the long pipe (with 2 repairs) as short as I dare to attached an in-line coupling. I disconnected the joint in the bathroom, at the 'wet' side of the newly installed valve (that normally allows me to cut the hot water to sink and bath.) The pipe wouldn't wriggle loose, so it had to be cut again. I still couldn't pull it through, so cut the first bend off (back in the bedroom) removing the third repair. Not only does the pipe run go from one room to another, it actually crosses over, two other pipes.... 

 

First part of the job was working out how the replacement could be joined. Eventually it became obvious I could do a lot of sub-assembly before laying the pipe run. The bathroom side was done by using a 22mm stub pipe, to end feed connector, to reducer to 15mm stub pipe to 15mm bend, to 10 inch length of 15mm pipe. A piece of leftover wood was screws to the joist for support, should I need it later (I did).

 

Next was to measure (roughly) the length of pipe to go under the partition wall, over the pipes running ALONG the partition, and into the bathroom. That done, I put a 90 degree bend in the pipe. I trimmed the length of pipe in the bedroom side, to approximately where I thought it safe to solder a joint, between joists. I then made another sub-assembly of 22mm pipe, end feed coupler, reducer. I fitted the 22mm end into the glanded coupler I HAD TO USE to join the stub of the rotten pipe I couldn't easily remove due to it's proximity to joists. Once the sub-assembly was in the right location, I cut the long pipe with 90 degree bend to the finished size, and soldered the joint. 

 

In the bathroom, I now had a good idea where the last two joints were joints to be, so I trial fitted another 90 degree joint on the end of the first sub-assembly. The angle of the joint was/is critical, because both ends of the sub-assembly had to be in the right place. (I suppose a plumber would have just added bits as they might go along the route, but I was trying to avoid putting heat under floorboard level if possible.)

 

The trial fit worked, so the 12 inch length was soldered. That left one 45 degree joint to do. This one HAD to be done under floorboard level, and right next to a joist. Ironically, it was right next to where the leak had been. The joist had been soaking wet 4-5 hours earlier, but had started drying out so it had to be completely wetted again. 

 

The sub-assembly was propped up in-situ (that block of wood screwed to a joist providing me with a third hand I didn't have at 2am). The last joint was soldered in place. The sub-assembly 22mm stub was fitted back into the 22mm hot water valve. The replacement pipe run was complete.

 

 

 

Although I did have the chance to carry out the repair during the day, I did not have the agility of mind to recognise the noise I'd heard earlier in the day, was water leaking inside my house. That said, unlike previous leaks, this one has dried quite quickly, indicating water wasn't leaking for long anyway. Other than faulty soldering, that pipe should be good for 20+ years now. Not that it needs to be. When I finally work out if I'm going to replace our nearly new boiler with a combi (or stick to the original Plan A), every single bit of 22mm pipe that's currently a liability will be obsolete, and will be removed. (With great pleasure!)

 

That time MUST be soon.   (As I've been saying for 3 years.)

Edited January 16, 2015 by FastFreddy2

[Puffer]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, Freddy.   Enough material there to fill a DIY programme on TV, I think - or one on endurance!

 

I had heard of 'copper cancer' but (mercifully) have never come across it knowingly in any of the 20 or so properties (mostly family) that I have done any significant work on over the years.   I rarely find any defect in copper pipework that is not clearly down to poor installation or jointing (unless mechanically damaged).   Indeed, I will happily re-use pipe removed during alterations, often somewhere else entirely, if it is sound (and some of the old stuff, usually 0.5", was thicker walled and of better quality than anything recently made).   My golden rule when soldering is clean everything thoroughly (even if bright copper) and ensure that enough heat, flux and solder is applied - and clean-up afterwards to check the joint as well to remove any excess solder/flux.  Yes, I will get the odd dry joint (usually from an undetected speck of dirt or grease that creeps in) but that can soon be remade.   A good jointing compound (the silicone type, usually) is essential on all compression joins, and PTFE on all threaded joints

 

I too have seen some pretty awful plumbing with adverse gradients and the like, as well as too much cut out of joists or walls.   Let's be honest though:   it is very difficult to avoid a few humps in pipework under the floor, and they don't really matter provided that (i) the floorboards etc are not compromised or the pipework itself left vulnerable to squashing or piercing; (ii) one can identify and deal with the low pockets of residual water when draining-down for a repair or alteration.   I have never resorted to pipe-freezing but sometimes have had to heat up a 'wet' pipe quite significantly to boil out otherwise irremovable water before I can solder (which is another reason to consider push-fit or compression joints if all else fails).   With waste plumbing, adverse gradients are another matter (apart from a trap of course) but I have seen attempts to make 1.5" sink waste pipes go uphill to a drain outside, with predictable results.

 

If your house is of any reasonable size, I would not advocate a combi, especially if you already have the CH pump, zone valves, expansion tank etc in place, even if you are going to replumb throughout.   Apart from anything else, as the CH and HW will be at mains pressure, any leaks will have a more serious effect.   And your bath will take a time to fill, even with a larger combi - which is one of the main factors to consider when sizing the boiler.   That said, I have installed combis in several flats, without problems.   My latest (a seaside flat bought for family leisure, and just finished after a complete 4-year refurb from a shell) is above a shop and I will certainly know it if there are any leaks!  Most of the underfloor pipework is in plastic (mainly because the previous owner had put it in as first-fix, albeit in the wrong places, and I dismantled and re-used accordingly) but copper used where necessary and for most CW and HW work, as well of course for the gas (which starts in 28mm as the run from meter to boiler is quite long and a supply to a hob branches off halfway).   And don't forget some sort of scale reducer and magnetic particle filter if you want to maximise boiler life.

 

I quite enjoy getting stuck-in to a plumbing job (grimy hands apart).   Indeed, leaving it is usually a 'wrench'.

 

Off to the Sussex coast tomorrow to fit chain-link dog-proof fencing at my younger son's new house.   Might be fun in likely poor weather; we shall see.

[FastFreddy2]

 

If your house is of any reasonable size, I would not advocate a combi, especially if you already have the CH pump, zone valves, expansion tank etc in place, even if you are going to replumb throughout.   Apart from anything else, as the CH and HW will be at mains pressure, any leaks will have a more serious effect.   And your bath will take a time to fill, even with a larger combi - which is one of the main factors to consider when sizing the boiler.

 

I am between a rock and a hard place with this.

 

My home is a a reasonable size, despite only having two of us to rattle around it. The previous owner had a new boiler installed 18 months before we bought the place. The problem we have (as does every house we've into of the same design), cracked ceilings in the bathroom, where the fill/empty cycle of the cold water tank directly above it, has cracked the plasterboard joins. Obviously, the joins were not done to the belt and braces standard I plan to employ to remedy the problem; 9mm marine ply across joins with plasterboard glued to ply - joins completely filled with adhesive filler - fibre tape with a more flexible screed than originally used...... But longterm, the space above the bathroom would be better if it were empty, meaning the cold water tank has to go. If it does, so will the hot water tank ... unless ..... 

 

The compromise, is an unvented hot water tank. This was 2014's plan, right up until "we" (me) realised the site for the new tank wouldn't allow access to anything the other side of it. Plan was shelved. Back to the rather unattractive option of combi boiler. The house needs about 11kw to heat it, but to get any the sort of heated water volume required for a half decent shower, I'm looking at 25-30kw. Ridiculous size of boiler that'll get 20 minutes of use each day.

 

Either option puts the hot/cold feeds in a central location, and the limited pipe runs would be kept short (with the single exception of a ground floor toilet (that I'm told we are keeping). At the moment, the hot water tank supplies hot water by going through 2 bedrooms, along an upper landing, through a third bedroom, before descending to the kitchen. The bathroom is fed in a similar way; through the same two bedrooms, and into the bathroom. There isn't any reason I can understand, the bathroom isn't fed directly from the hot tank that sits 5ft from the bathroom? (Opposite side of the landing in fact.) As I said before, lunatic grade design. The redesign brings hot water up directly into the bathroom from the floor below, with a shorter pipe run from the (new) hot water tank, or combi boiler, than the current route from the old hot water tank. The pipe run to the kitchen will be significantly shorter. 

 

 

Thing is ..... everyone things combi's are the energy saving god. I think unvented hot water tanks are. All that heated water at mains pressure/flow rates! 

[Puffer]

In my own experience, a larger (30kW+) combi costs very little more than one of, say 24kW.   As you know, it isn't the radiator output that matters so much as the peak HW demand if you want to fill a bath (or even run a shower) with a reasonable flow rate.   My seaside flat has a Pro-Combi Exclusive 30kW; this heats up the rads in a matter of seconds and gives a good HW flow when needed.   These boilers (24, 30, 35kW) are made by Ideal and well thought-of; they are cheaper however than the badged Ideal equivalents- and a lot cheaper than (say) Worcester Bosch.   (And you don't have to go to Germany for an expensive replacement part if you accidently cook something!)

[FastFreddy2]

Had a look at Pro-Combi Exclusive 30kW prices. Very attractive. Some of the stalling point for the replacement, has been my love of a Viessmann boiler.... But that can wait for a house I intend to keep.

 

I think the boiler we have at the moment is a 19kw Worcester "system" boiler. Heats up the house -just- given some of the rads are next to useless, though provides fast reheat of hot water for our gravity fed hot water system. BUT, I have promised herself a fairly good shower the other side of me sorting out the plumbing. We have very good water pressure so the bottleneck, as you rightly say, is the heating capacity of the boiler in a high demand situation. An unvented tank would allow us to keep our current boiler, and get hot water from a showerhead at mains pressure too, without any concern about heating water on-the-fly as is the case with a combi.

 

There isn't much to be had either way in saving money on a budget. The combi will need lots of new pipework (ref leaks) as would any pressurised system I introduce. A Santon unvented tank goes for similar money to the Pro-Combi, and installation costs will be similar. A new owner will only understand "the new boiler" concept of course. "Space" may be the deciding factor. We have plenty, but every cubic centimetre comes at a premium when remodelling a house to suit "everyone".   

[Puffer]

You should be able to get the 30kW for under £600 inc standard flue and VAT, especially if you pick it up.   Mine was just under £500 in Feb 2013; collected from supplier in Sittingbourne (Kent).   If you need flue extension, elbows etc (common to several Ideal boilers), they are usually available cheap on eBay, typically leftovers or unwanted parts.   You would need also a filling loop, a Spirovent (or similar) dirt collector and a magnetic limescale remover - all again usually available on eBay or at the car boot sale!   No real need for a built-in programmer to replace standard timer, and I've been perfectly happy with a cheapo room stat - but some prefer a full external (wireless) programmer.

[FastFreddy2]

I've found a place that has the boiler for the right money. As for "fitments", that'll be someone elses job.    I have a Magna Clean filter already, but the Spirovent is a new one on me. Still not decided what to do, or rather, which way to jump. The unvented water tank doesn't take up much room, and I like the idea of one - a lot. When I have the garage tested for asbestos, if it comes back negative the tank can go in there. If not, I will be compelled to leave the garage alone and change the boiler.

 

I have the all-singing-all-dancing control system, care of an earlier problem (above.)

 

With any luck, I'll get around to the asbestos tests this week. 

[Puffer]

That looks a good price, Freddy - and with free filling loop too!   But you must collect from Bradford, although no doubt can combine 'trip' with some shoe shopping (or vice versa if heels too high!).   Magnaclean should be fine; I just preferred the all-brass Spirovent to other types.

 

At the risk of teaching grandmother ... (but you might not have considered it yet), don't forget that boiler position is critical.   It must be on or near outside wall so co-ax flue can go thru wall (at the right position, correct distance from any nearby windows, pipes, eaves etc).   You must have an overflow (usual bent pipe draining onto wall outside is fine) and a discharge pipe for acidic condensate.   The latter should run into soil pipe (or rainwater hopper at a pinch) or to proper soakaway, but not just allowed to trickle down a wall or roof.   If necessary condensate must be pumped to a safe discharge point; pumps can be expensive (around £80 - 100) but I got a new 'Ideal' one for my flat on eBay for about £25 all-in.  Here is one current bargain:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drayton-Condensate-Pump-Freeflo-CF-301-boxed-unused-/261731091921?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3cf06385d1

 

Good luck with the design and planning.

 

[Puffer]

Sorry, Freddy, I gave the wrong 'pump' link; this is better: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/condensate-pump-/181644590936?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item2a4adc7f58- but you might prefer the other item I found in the same quick search:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WOMENS-BALLET-PUMP-FLAT-SHOES-SIZE-8-WIDE-FIT-FLORAL-IDEAL-HOLIDAY-SUMMER-/331453121920?pt=UK_Women_s_Shoes&hash=item4d2c254580  

 

There is a definite advantage in draining the condensate internally (e.g. to soil pipe) if possible as this avoids the risk of the pipe freezing, which stops boiler working.   If the pipe is external, it must be well-lagged or have a heating element.

[FastFreddy2]

That looks a good price, Freddy - and with free filling loop too!   But you must collect from Bradford, 

 

.......

 

Good luck with the design and planning.

 

 

If I read it right, delivery was something like £15, which still brings it in under £600. I haven't checked my local stores yet to see what they can do, so carriage might not be required if I search for a bit longer.    The plumber, (who does a job as good as I would - but is 10 times faster) and his Gas Safe pal might be able to get a deal too, I just haven't asked yet. 

 

The current 'system' boiler is about 4ft from an outside wall (in the garage) so a replacement will go in the same place. Unlike the previous installer - who failed to replace a completely welded-with-age internal stop cock while changing the boiler - the (new) plumber has already told me he would insist on lagging ALL exposed pipework. He can't believe the previous installer didn't lag pipes that potentially run next to a car, but also wastes heat warming up a garage! 

 

 

The "condensate" (run off pipe to me) is already piped to an internal rainwater downpipe. The garage sticks out proud from the main brickwork of the building, and the rainwater pipe for the small flat roof section of the garage is set back inside the garage, so the condensate pipe is a short run, and a warm one thanks to unlagged pipework.      I bookmarked that link for the pump anyway, so thanks for that.  

 

Got an injury to my hand today, (read about that elsewhere) so the asbestos tests might get delayed....   

[Heels]

Just bought my first flat.  Haven't got central heating, just over night storage heaters but they work fine.  Had a small leak from the outlet from the toilet. Had help from my Dad and was able to remove the toilet. Put a new seal around the outlet pipe and the toilet  Went to test for leaks and found the donut between the cistern and the bowl was now leaking. So had to go back out and get a new donut , but was able to fix it in the end

Edited January 31, 2015 by Heels

[Puffer]

Leaky donut washers are quite common, Heels.   But easily fixed as you have found out, either by replacement with new or by removing and replacing (ensuring any squashy bits are ironed out if possible) with an added squirt of silicone if necessary.   The donut concept is simple but in practice distortion can occur with a leak inevitable.   Sometimes the squashy foam-type donut is better than the more rigid rubber ring.   An alternative (less messy and readily removable) is adding a modest amount of Plumbers' Mate (non-setting mastic), which can be cleaned off with white spirit if necessary.

 

Always make sure that anything fitted through the bottom of the cistern is tightly sealed too; another obvious place for leaks.   A few years ago, I had a slight but persistent undetected leak from around a bottom-entry filling pipe and the drips went into the tiled floor joints and caused several tiles to lift (off a wooden floor, but correct adhesive had been used).   I had to lift nearly all the tiles, remove all old adhesive (by grinding!) and replace - a lot of work which a tight cistern/pipe seal would have avoided.

 

The Wickes Newport WC (otherwise a good and keenly-priced product) does suffer from donut leaks and I've found on both I've fitted recently that adding a little silicone is advisable.   

 

No, I'm not available for emergency call-outs ...!

[Heels]

I should of  said my Dad is a carpenter by trade but is a very good plumber and  brick layer. He was  a selfemployed builder. There were times were he fitted oil tanks .

[Puffer]

Coincidentally, I saw in the local paper yesterday an advert from a business doing plumbing/heating work that proclaimed 'If water and gas run through it, we do it'.   I'm not sure I would like anyone who thinks that a pipe has (or should have) both water and gas running through it to interfere with my domestic set-up!    (Cue to watch water coming out of the hob.)

[FastFreddy2]

I looking to fit a 2m high by 1.2m wide window panel in about 3 weeks. Normally this sort of stuff is left to the "experts", but I've seen some of the jobs the "experts" have done and have decided I'm going to give it a go. Worst case scenario, I have to pay to get someone to help me out - having mucked it up trying myself. 

 

Mrs Freddy is over-the-moon I finally ordered it today. The panel needs to be installed before we can remove an internal wall, and start to think about planning ...... her ....... new kitchen. Only been four years,  what she complaining about? 

[FastFreddy2]

Having a change the taps weekend.......

 

Bath taps, which are a cheap mono-lever design that barely work thanks to being in a hard water area, and it was a cheap 'emergency' buy, some 2 years ago. The replacement is planned for Sunday.

 

Saturdays job was the kitchen taps. Although another temporary 'repair' as I've got to install a new kitchen later this year ..... The taps come highly recommended despite being budget class, as they have a good pedigree. Took me some time to get the old taps off (been there a long time and there's no room under the sink), but I got there in the end.

 

 

I'd already fitted an isolating valve to the hot supply and the cold is mains so that was taken care of elsewhere, though I will be fitting and isolator for that too. The new taps look pretty and have a nice feel to them. That's the end of the good news...

 

While getting the old taps out meant I could be a little 'brutal' with the old fittings, I decided (at the last minute) I was missing what could be a useful tool. 

 

 

 

The holes in the stainless worktop are square, so that the square flanges in the old taps prevented any rotation of the taps when being used. The new taps are round (which they all seem to be) but I still have an enormous square hole to fill with a smaller threaded base. Not only that, but the threaded section is shorter on the new taps too. Put bluntly, nothing fits together any longer, and there's plenty of scope for movement when it does....

 

4 lugs stop any rotation of the tap.

 

I'm looking to invest in a little kit called Fix'a'Tap, primarily to use the two washers in the kit that'll prevent the taps rotating when fitted. Seems the washers have adhesive that'll bond the tap to the sink just enough to stop the tap rotating when being turn on or off. This wouldn't usually be a problem, but ..... I realised I have a need for this kit late on Saturday. The usual 'shed' suppliers don't stock these, and until I sort out the cold tap at least, we don't have drinking water (save for the 5L bottle I bought close to midnight tonight.) 

 

Although it'll mean a 40 mile round trip tomorrow, I have a solution care of a seller on an auction site, who has agreed to let me collect a kit from him tomorrow lunchtime.   The fuel bill will be treble the cost of the kit. I just can't wait for it to be posted .... Going to be a busy day, Sunday. 

Edited May 3, 2015 by FastFreddy2