Why do we like/want to wear heels?

[Puffer 258]

On 11/01/2018 at 3:11 PM, FastFreddy2 said:

...

As to the popularity of cycling (and I speak as an enthusiast myself), in my very young days, the only people I saw on a bicycle was the local bobby and the postman. No one else (until the mid sixties) had one.

 

On 11/01/2018 at 3:16 PM, Shyheels said:

You are quite correct that in the 1950s etc bicycles were thin on the ground, or on the roads.

...

I am surprised by your assertions, based on my own close observations when growing-up through the 1950s.   All things are relative, of course, and I would not disagree with the statement that bicycles grew progressively less popular in the UK as affordable alternatives (especially private cars) became more available.

In my part of the world (suburban Middlesex, with a wide cross-section of residents - ranging almost from slum-dwellers to tycoons), bicycles were still a regular and very necessary form of daily transport for many working men and not a few women.   Apart from postmen and policemen, they were widely used by other tradesmen (even for light deliveries), meter-readers, turncocks, local council officers, teachers, nurses, school children, students and many others.   Just look at a typical 1950s factory gate (even in the affluent south-east) at the beginning or end of the shift and it will be swarming with manual workers (and clerks), a good number of whom would be on bikes.   At least two of my school-friends in my own road had fathers who cycled several miles to and from work every day, in all weathers, as did at least half of my infant/junior school teachers.   And bikes were still quite a common form of leisure transport - either relatively simple 3-speed 'push-bikes' or more sophisticated drop-handled jobs, used as much for convenience/cheapness as for sport/exercise.   It was really only in the early-mid 60s that cars really took over for private transport.   In my road (around 80 houses), I guess we went from about 4 car-owners in 1958 to 20 about a decade later - and my family didn't have a car until I got one in 1970.   At the same time, more sophisticated bikes for leisure use (particularly by children and youths) came into vogue, probably more than replacing numerically the old ones made redundant by the car. 

[Shyheels 183]

A few years ago I posted in my cycling blog a charming newsreel of a day’s cycling using the train from the city (I forget which city) to get out into the countryside. I think the film was sponsored by the rail company. Anyway in those days the railways put in extra baggage carriages just for cyclists. It was really quite a nice little film that captures the innocence of the age.

As to bicycles being thin on the ground then, I was comparing it to the near ubiquity of bicycles during the 1890s

Edited January 12, 2018 by Shyheels

[Puffer 258]

Just now, Shyheels said:

A few years ago I posted in my cycling blog a charming newsreel of a day’s cycling using the train from the city (I forget which city) to get out into the countryside. I think the film was sponsored by the rail company. Anyway in those days the railways put in extra baggage carriages just for cyclists. It was really quite a nice little film that captures the innocence of the age.

As to bicycles being thin on the ground then, I was comparing it to the near ubiquity of bicycles during the 1890s

Yes, I know that film - made on the Midland main line (Bedfordshire?) as I recall.   I will post a link when I can relocate it.   The annual London - Brighton ride was catered for by special return trains for the cyclists and their bikes, but not for some years I believe as it was allegedly no longer 'operationally convenient'.

I fully accept that the 1890s was far more 'bike-minded' than the 1950s (or later) but they were certainly still commonplace, especially among working men. 

[FastFreddy2 282]

Today. the world seems to be full of 'old geezers' reminiscing about "the good old days"....  

 

I'll tell you what I remember about those days... Being hungry all the time. Having jam-sandwiches for tea. Having the elbows missing on my sweater(s). Crying, because I was made to wear my next-door neighbours cast-off sandals. (That I grew to love.) I remember we had a lodger. I remember ice on the inside of the windows during winter. I remember the nearly-black coal man, making a delivery.  I remember the veg man arriving twice a week with his converted coach that was a mobile greengrocers. The 'pop' man who delivered. The milk deliveries with beak shaped holes in some of the milk lids. 

They were not 'good old days' to me. Innocent days, worry free days maybe. Energetic days .... But seeing my father go off to work in the evenings was not so good, and having to be quiet during the day while he slept, not so good. We had it better than some. We all had good health. We didn't actually starve. But my parents were used to having very little, and aspired to more of the same. 

While I would welcome being young again, I'm much happier in 2018 with a heated home with food in the fridge and an excess of clothing.  As I stated during my fathers eulogy,  the children of today (his grandchildren) have no idea how tough it was being a post war working class family, just as I have no idea how hard it was for the working class in Victorian times.

But I've some idea.....  

 

I don't recall if the story was told on one of those "Who do you think you are" programmes or "Heir Hunters".... But the basics were this:

An old fella in his 80's, had lost his (immediate) family through age, hard work and social conditions. Wife and his children all gone, so was living with his grandchildren's family. Unable to work, he felt a burden on the grandchild and their family - who could barely feed themselves. So he hanged himself.

 

 

[Shyheels 183]

6 hours ago, Puffer said:

Yes, I know that film - made on the Midland main line (Bedfordshire?) as I recall.   I will post a link when I can relocate it.   The annual London - Brighton ride was catered for by special return trains for the cyclists and their bikes, but not for some years I believe as it was allegedly no longer 'operationally convenient'.

I fully accept that the 1890s was far more 'bike-minded' than the 1950s (or later) but they were certainly still commonplace, especially among working men. 

Bicycles were very much a working class transport and a working man’s sport as well. The history of the Tour de France has some amazing stories of some of these guys - they were tough! Working physically demanding jobs, getting time off for the race (lots of kudos so bosses were willing) the riding their bikes often hundreds of miles to the starting line, doing the race (it was much longer and tougher then) no support vehicles or helpers or anything, then at the end, turning around and riding home - back to work.

My wife’s grandfather (b1918) was raised in very tough circumstances, often hungry, finishing discarded apple cores found on the street as a child, but when he has his first job he saved and bought a bicycle - not for sport or leisure but as transport. He and I used to talk about cycling back in the day. During WWII with petrol rationing the bicycle was indispensable for getting around.

Then there is Robert Marchand - a tough old French communist party member, unionist, firefighter, truck driver, lumberjack and bicycle racer in the 1930s. He has just retired from competitive cycling - at the age of 106! He holds the hour record for the 105+ age bracket ( they had to make it up just for him) at nearly 15 miles. He holds all the 100+ records as well. He is still cycling, just no more record setting...

They made them tough in those days!

Edited January 13, 2018 by Shyheels

[Tacchi Alti 39]

On 10/01/2018 at 1:29 PM, Shyheels said:

Yes, getting your stilettos stuck between gaps in the  decking would not be a good look!

My wife is quite fine with my flat/low OTK suede boots. She is supportive of my desire to try out stilettos although I don't think I would care to go out in them - assuming I master the art of walking in them well enough so that it would even e a possibility! 

These are 4 inch wedges, with no platform and an almond toe, with a stiletto profile from the back. I wore them, although afterwards my wife said she wished I hadn't as she doesn't like the stiletto look on me. I've worn them before when we've been out for a meal and she's not commented, but anyway, she's expressed her opinion so I'll wear something with a thicker heel next time as I don't want to get any setbacks in our heely relationship. Actually, the boots were a bit unstable as the surface is not flat. It's wooden decking with a slightly ridged profile, and some of it is diagonal. The surface was a bit wet, and the heels kept slipping into the dips! I was glad to have her to hang onto, although I didn't slip much! Actually, I loved the feeling of vulnerability! Wider heels would have been more stable, and probably stilettos would have been, as part of the problem was the slippery bottom of the wedge itself between the heel tip and the sole. If I could have been sure of the stiletto not disappearing into the gaps between the planking...

[Shyheels 183]

Pleasingly enough my wife actually likes my stiletto boots coupled with my skinny jeans. I am not wearing them out though - if for no other reason than  need to become much more graceful!

 

[Tacchi Alti 39]

2 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Pleasingly enough my wife actually likes my stiletto boots coupled with my skinny jeans. I am not wearing them out though - if for no other reason than  need to become much more graceful!

 

Practice... Would she be OK with you wearing them in public?

[Shyheels 183]

It is very early days. 

It is nothing Would even remotely want to bring up at this point

Personally I would be fine with it.

I would never want to do anything that would embarrass her though.

[Tacchi Alti 39]

Yes indeed. Embarrassment is a big thing. I'm not sure quite how far I can push things right now, although she has been OK travelling with me in 4 inch block heels Oxfords and being with me when I wore them in the company of close friends. I'm hoping to get some 4.5 inch block heel ankle boots and see how she is with those. I really wish I could find shoes more easily. Boots are quite easy, but 'masculine' shoes are very difficult to find, and sandals are almost impossible although I have one pair of those I wear in public when the weather's warmer!

[Shyheels 183]

I am very much a boots guy. And that has nothing todo with heels. My default footwear for decades has been hiking boots. Except for cycling and the gym I do not wear shoes at all.  Boots with block heels can be fairly masculine. I tend to go for knee or otk boots though which is more of a challenge... 

[FastFreddy2 282]

11 hours ago, Tacchi Alti said:

Yes indeed. Embarrassment is a big thing. 

And this should surprise none of us.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything comparable a female partner or companion could do that might put us in a similar situation. Certainly nothing dress wise.... Getting drunk amongst friends and starting to swear like fish-wife maybe, or starting a row with them over nothing while intoxicated? Leaving a toilet with skirt tucked into tights possibly, but that would have no lasting effect - save as an anecdote. Unlike immediate family bumping into one of us in a public place, while we were (obviously) wearing a high heel? 

I've no shame (or very little) and have pretty much isolated myself over the last 7 years, so I'm not likely to meet anyone I'd be bothered about while in a heel, but that isn't true for Mrs Freddy. I've mention many times, I am very careful to keep my secret, a secret from her social circle even if I don't wholly agree with it. For example, the husband of a very close friend is an alcoholic, and has been for a very long time. Two of her other close friends, have endured abusive (first) husbands who made their lives quite unpleasant for many, many years. Another friend was left with two young children to bring up pretty much without help, when her husband was found with another woman... In the great scheme of things, my little "wrinkle" (which she's known about since we started our relationship) ought to be waaaaay down a list of misdemeanours that might upset her friends - or so I'd like to think anyway. 

I know for fact a great many men are into wearing a high heel. [I'm pretty sure a significant amount (meaning more than 5%) of men have tried on, or keep women's clothing to wear - at  some stage - during the course of  their lives.] Yet ANY form of experimentation by men old enough to know better, is deemed socially unacceptable. As Spock from Star Trek would say; "It's illogical."

 

 

[Shyheels 183]

Entirely correct! It is illogical. When you think of the catalogue of misdeeds that men do or are capable of, an inclination to wear heels ought to be near the very bottom of the list, somewhat below leaving the toilet seat up.  At the very worst it ought to equate to wearing different colour socks.

Women can indeed embarrass men with fashion choices. My brother's wife - in her fifties - has a tendency to dress like a hooker. I really am not keen on walking down the footpath in her company and do, in fact, tend to keep a deniable distance where possible...

[Tacchi Alti 39]

It seems that as my heels go up, my wife's go down! I don't blame her as she's had knee problems and also tends to walk on the side of her foot, thus wearing shoes unevenly. Anyway, she's happy for her to wear flats and for me to wear heels, so I'm not complaining. I've ordered a pair of block heel boots off Ebay so will see what they are like and what she thinks of them! I can't work out exactly what styles she prefers on me - wedges or block heels, boots or shoes. I've asked her that when she's expressed disapproval about a particular pair but she hasn't given a definite answer.

[FastFreddy2 282]

10 hours ago, Shyheels said:

My brother's wife - in her fifties - has a tendency to dress like a hooker. I really am not keen on walking down the footpath in her company and do, in fact, tend to keep a deniable distance where possible...

Ahemmm.... Sounds like my kinda woman.  

There are places on a scale that are acceptable, some not. I went to a wedding once, and the grooms friend brought his then girlfriend. She wore a white mini-dress that barely covered her fufu. So wrong, on so many levels....

Mrs Freddy dresses way too conservatively for her body shape and age. I remember well my first ever trip abroad, to Amsterdam. I couldn't believe there was a place where middle aged people dressed fashionably! We have been very slow to follow... Mrs F will wear a short skirt with leggings or thick tights, but her legs are slim enough (and her hips still small enough) to get away with a shorter shirt still. It's not about waving her bits at anyone, it's a case of making the most of her legs. I regularly see girls out in leggings/thick tights with no skirt at all, and knickers in plain view. I am not suggesting her 'good self' do this - obviously. We are a long time dead, and not quite as long confined to a wheelchair of bed, so I think she should be showing off a bit more than she does. I guess she would say she would be happier to do that if she could shake off a stone or two of excess weight. 

I had a girlfriend who used to dress like a hooker. (Used to wear black stockings and suspenders under yellow semi transparent "ski-pants". (I have a photo here of her wearing that very outfit.) She provided some very interesting times ... And I suppose I would be lying if I said I hadn't fallen in love with her during our 10 year on/off relationship. I almost never saw her out of stiletto's, wherever she was, whatever she was doing......  

[Shyheels 183]

It was to a wedding we were going with my brother and his wife. Her outfit was just unbelievably hookerish, and I don’t mean high class hooker, I mean streetwalker. It was awful.

My wife was quite the rock chic in her 20s and looked stunning.

[FastFreddy2 282]

1 minute ago, Shyheels said:

It was to a wedding we were going with my brother and his wife. Her outfit was just unbelievably hookerish, and I don’t mean high class hooker, I mean streetwalker. It was awful.

In my mind ... More inappropriate than awful....  

There's a place for that sort of clothing, a night out .... (To the cinema - seems quite popular. I've seen very questionable dress sense by some ladies when visiting the picture house. Not sure what that's about, but often wondered.)

 

1 minute ago, Shyheels said:

My wife was quite the rock chic in her 20s and looked stunning.

Mine quite the 'rock chick' in her very slim late 30's. I have a picture of her here somewhere wearing very shiny PVC trousers, in a size 8. She wasn't so bothered about short skirts back then. 

[Shyheels 183]

Yes, my wife did the PVC thing extraordinarily well, and totally still could - quite tall and willowy, although it’s not her thing anymore. She is still very stylish though, but in a different way.

 

[Puffer 258]

On 15/01/2018 at 11:06 PM, FastFreddy2 said:

...

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything comparable a female partner or companion could do that might put us in a similar situation. Certainly nothing dress wise.... Getting drunk amongst friends and starting to swear like fish-wife maybe, or starting a row with them over nothing while intoxicated? Leaving a toilet with skirt tucked into tights possibly, but that would have no lasting effect - save as an anecdote. Unlike immediate family bumping into one of us in a public place, while we were (obviously) wearing a high heel? 

I've no shame (or very little) and have pretty much isolated myself over the last 7 years, so I'm not likely to meet anyone I'd be bothered about while in a heel, but that isn't true for Mrs Freddy. I've mention many times, I am very careful to keep my secret, a secret from her social circle even if I don't wholly agree with it. ... In the great scheme of things, my little "wrinkle" (which she's known about since we started our relationship) ought to be waaaaay down a list of misdemeanours that might upset her friends - or so I'd like to think anyway. 

I know for fact a great many men are into wearing a high heel. [I'm pretty sure a significant amount (meaning more than 5%) of men have tried on, or keep women's clothing to wear - at  some stage - during the course of  their lives.] Yet ANY form of experimentation by men old enough to know better, is deemed socially unacceptable. As Spock from Star Trek would say; "It's illogical."

 

On 16/01/2018 at 2:46 AM, Shyheels said:

Entirely correct! It is illogical. When you think of the catalogue of misdeeds that men do or are capable of, an inclination to wear heels ought to be near the very bottom of the list, somewhat below leaving the toilet seat up.  At the very worst it ought to equate to wearing different colour socks.

Women can indeed embarrass men with fashion choices. My brother's wife - in her fifties - has a tendency to dress like a hooker. I really am not keen on walking down the footpath in her company and do, in fact, tend to keep a deniable distance where possible...

Illogical indeed - and unfair and just one example of typical female hypocrisy.   My wife (whose abhorrence of my heel-wearing, and interest in footwear generally has been mentioned before) has a whole set of double standards by which she expects us both to live.   She will, for example, enjoy watching on TV gay [how I hate that hi-jacked word!] or camp male presenters or actors, in character or not - even including female impersonators - yet loathes Eddie Izzard or any other man whose appearance might indicate a trace of make-up or female clothing in 'real life'.   I am ridiculed if I decide to go out in my modest men's cuban heels or anything else with a pointed toe (which 'embarrass' her) - and she has made it very clear that she is 'sickened' by the thought of me wearing any women's high heels, which clearly indicates to her that I am at least an active crossdresser and probably homosexual or a potential transsexual.   (She is an intelligent woman but her ignorance in these matters is quite astounding.)

As to the ranking of heel-wearing in the catalogue of unacceptable husbandly activity, it is clearly a high one.   But so, it seems, are most of my other characteristics when it suits her.   And they are never counter-balanced by my skills and efforts in household management generally (including much of our shopping, nearly all of our significant DIY needs and looking after our finances) and an almost complete absence of those mostly blokish activities that can so easily ruin a marriage (financially or emotionally), such as drinking, gambling, womanising, fast cars, playing or watching sports.   Maybe I should start to give her a real reason for criticism ...?

[Shyheels 183]

It really sounds as tough you are in an unpleasant - nay, intolerable - situation with no real prospect of happy change, other than amputation 

I am really appreciating how fortunate I am in having a wife like mine. She is totally tolerant. Really quite cool. 

Alas she is working in her office at work today. I miss the companionable presence.

I do have footwear my wife hates - she loathes my Asics trainers (which are, to be sure, a hideous yellow) !

[Tacchi Alti 39]

48 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

It really sounds as tough you are in an unpleasant - nay, intolerable - situation with no real prospect of happy change, other than amputation 

I am really appreciating how fortunate I am in having a wife like mine. She is totally tolerant. Really quite cool. 

Alas she is working in her office at work today. I miss the companionable presence.

I do have footwear my wife hates - she loathes my Asics trainers (which are, to be sure, a hideous yellow) !

I agree. I admire Puffer's patience! He must love his wife a lot to put up with her hypocrisy. Unfortunately some otherwise intelligent people (not just women!) have blinkered and illogical views on any sort of straying from what is regarded by them as socially acceptable. Interestingly, one of my wife's questions when I 'came out' to her was, 'Are you gay?' I've since found that's a common reaction and seen a lovely reply: 'If you wear flat shoes are you a lesbian?' I think a lot of women feel threatened and insecure if they see a man straying over the boundaries they like to impose, although it's perfectly OK for them to wear/do what they like. Trousers and trainers are men's wear, aren't they? I doubt many women are without either, although there are a few (both sexes) who don't approve of women in trousers for that very reason. Ultimately a lot of our clothing has evolved as a result of fashion, not because of any actual male/female difference, but some people don't see that. Hence the fact that high heels were originally men's wear, but try telling a blinkered hypocrite that!

[Shyheels 183]

My wife never asked any of those questions. She understood the appeal - she likes boots too, why shouldn't I?

[Tacchi Alti 39]

6 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

My wife never asked any of those questions. She understood the appeal - she likes boots too, why shouldn't I?

You're very fortunate. My wife is a conundrum in that she's not interested in clothes although she has a good eye for coordination and style. She used to wear heels about 2.5 inches and still does occasionally, but she doesn't understand my love of wearing them. She hates clothes shopping. She gets most on Ebay. I have far more shoes than she does, and nearly all of them have higher heels than any of hers. I have more heels than flat shoes, and now rarely wear men's shoes apart from some Cuban heel loafers which have heels just under 2 inches. People are used to me wearing those to church etc so it's a matter of slowly pushing things amongst close friends/church members, who of course tend to be the most 'conservative' when it comes to clothes.

[FastFreddy2 282]

1 hour ago, Puffer said:

As to the ranking of heel-wearing in the catalogue of unacceptable husbandly activity, it is clearly a high one.   But so, it seems, are most of my other characteristics when it suits her.   And they are never counter-balanced by my skills and efforts in household management generally (including much of our shopping, nearly all of our significant DIY needs and looking after our finances) and an almost complete absence of those mostly blokish activities that can so easily ruin a marriage (financially or emotionally), such as drinking, gambling, womanising, fast cars, playing or watching sports.   Maybe I should start to give her a real reason for criticism ...?

I don't know you "should", but I have suggested several times, you might be more inclined to fight your corner. Your wife (i will not use the term 'partner') clearly has her world run her way, and continues to keep you "in check".

Several of us, and I include some who don't write here very often (and more who have stopped writing altogether) have found a 'happy medium' where tolerance in this matter has become part of an agreeable solution. This means that while a complete conversion to heel wearing by the male half of the partnership full-time is not possible, (or maybe even wanted), part-time use in a shared environment has been achieved. It doesn't seem an unreasonable outcome amongst reasonable people. Unusual; yes, even odd, but acceptable and accepted.

While the 'moral code' of your wife seems to have an unclear barrier, plainly there is one - or at least one she likes to enforce (with you). I would suggest that since there is no obvious downside for her, at worst she should be turning a blind eye to you interest, even if she refuses to share any measure of it with you. Meaning, you ought to be able to own and use heels in her absence, without criticism or indignation. It ought to be considered -at worst- a private indulgence by you that doesn't in any way impinge on her life or lifestyle.    

 

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

It really sounds as tough you are in an unpleasant - nay, intolerable - situation with no real prospect of happy change, other than amputation 

I am really appreciating how fortunate I am in having a wife like mine.

Agreed.

While I am no pioneer to heel wearing, nor martyr to the cause, I would really struggle to accept Puffers situation. I have had, and in some ways continue to have something of an outlandish lifestyle. My wife has known me better than 40 years, and we've been together for over 20 of those years. I don't recall her telling me ever, "you aren't doing that" or even criticising me for doing anything like it. That includes buying expensive bikes I never rode, (more than once), and same with camera equipment. I like to think I'm supported if that's quite the right phrase, as I pretty much 'support' my wife in whatever she does or wants to do. Bottom line of a marriage I like to think, is to enhance our life experience of our partner while we can. If it isn't mutual, what you have isn't a partnership is it....  

[Shyheels 183]

My wife was quite the rock chic back in her twenties and looked stunning. She still looks stunning although the rock chic look has long since evolved into other directions. She can't wear heels because of her foot troubles but has told me my four-inch stilettos were exactly what she would live to have herself if she could wear heels; although she also said that four inches was a bit high for her even back in the day.  She is very open and understanding.